Jacqueline Casimere Oral History, 2022/09/22

Self Description: "Yeah, my name is Jackie Casimire. I am adult division director of Mothers Of Murdered Columbus Children. Hence, I am a mother of a murdered Columbus child."

Some of the things we discussed include:
Discovering one’s own voice; showing up and being present for others as activism.
Having had surgery in December 2019, returning to work on March 17, 2020.
Learning electronics and new software to work from home.
Adult daughter and her family getting sick early in the pandemic; grandson with asthma.
Early speculation about the origins of the virus; learning more about the diversity of corona viruses, eg. common cold.
Supporting a friend, Malissa Thomas St.-Claire, in doing activism for Mothers of Murdered Columbus Children.
Son, Ray (Cash) Casimere, robbed and murdered in September 2020, grieving in isolation, becoming an activist.
People being reduced to numbers.
Granddaughter moving in after son’s death.
Son’s murderer OD’ing; finding peace in the absence of justice.
Starting a foundation in honor of her son, the C. Ray Casimere Foundation, gun buyback that would support those bringing guns in.
Planning the funeral during the pandemic; and allotment of 60 guests; funeral streaming.
Hosting a voter registration drive.
Having caught COVID twice.
Hosting holiday events for other mothers of murdered children; the importance of events for people at higher risk of suicide; reaching out.
Hugs and activism.
Timelines on grief, people thinking that it has been enough time to move on; finding ways to move forward.
Stigma and shame around mental health.
“It’s okay not to be okay.”

September 22, 2022

Kit Heintzman

Jacqueline Casimere

Kit Heintzman

video

English Crime

English Emotion

English Health & Wellness

English Home & Family Life

English Race & Ethnicity

English Social Issues

grief

motherhood

gun control

activism

murder

mental health

activist

anxiety

bereaved

Columbus

COVID+

depression

election

funeral

guns

holidays

hugs

motherhood

murder

Ohio

suicidality

trauma

vaccination

voting

Black Voices

Mental Health

Motherhood

10/17/2022

12/04/2022

01/13/2023

12/05/2024

09/22/2022

Kit Heintzman

Jacqueline Casimere

Columbus

Ohio

United States of America

video

english

01:07:57

Discovering one’s own voice; showing up and being present for others as activism. Having had surgery in December 2019, returning to work on March 17, 2020. Learning electronics and new software to work from home. Adult daughter and her family getting sick early in the pandemic; grandson with asthma. Early speculation about the origins of the virus; learning more about the diversity of corona viruses, eg. common cold. Supporting a friend, Malissa Thomas St.-Claire, in doing activism for Mothers of Murdered Columbus Children. Son, Ray (Cash) Casimere, robbed and murdered in September 2020, grieving in isolation, becoming an activist. People being reduced to numbers. Granddaughter moving in after son’s death. Son’s murderer OD’ing; finding peace in the absence of justice. Starting a foundation in honor of her son, the C. Ray Casimere Foundation, gun buyback that would support those bringing guns in. Planning the funeral during the pandemic; and allotment of 60 guests; funeral streaming. Hosting a voter registration drive. Having caught COVID twice. Hosting holiday events for other mothers of murdered children; the importance of events for people at higher risk of suicide; reaching out. Hugs and activism. Timelines on grief, people thinking that it has been enough time to move on; finding ways to move forward. Stigma and shame around mental health. “It’s okay not to be okay.”

Kit Heintzman 00:03
Hello, would you please state your name, the date, the time and your location?

Jackie Casimire 00:09
My name is Jacqueline Casimire is September 22 4:01pm, Columbus, Ohio.

Kit Heintzman 00:17
And do you consent to having this interview recorded, digitally uploaded and publicly released under a Creative Commons license attribution noncommercial sharealike?

Jackie Casimire 00:26
Yes.

Kit Heintzman 00:28
Thank you so much for being here with me today. Could you just start by introducing yourself to anyone who might find themselves listening?

Jackie Casimire 00:36
Yeah, my name is Jackie Casimire. I am adult division director of Mothers Of Murdered Columbus Children. Hence, I am a mother of a murdered Columbus child.

Kit Heintzman 00:52
Would you tell me a story about your life during the pandemic?

Jackie Casimire 00:57
My life during the pandemic, um, like everybody else. I was thrown into chaos. I was had surgery, had a pretty major surgery, the end of December of 2019. returned to work. After my surgery, September, I mean, sorry, march 17. And was sent back home that same day. Later in that year, September of that year, my son was murdered. So not only was I thrown in chaos with the pandemic, the isolation of work from home and the grieving of my son I am now [both speaking]

Jackie Casimire 02:03
sorry

Kit Heintzman 02:04
Please continue.

Jackie Casimire 02:09
And at that point I became an activist to be the keep from becoming a statistic.

Kit Heintzman 02:22
Would you tell me a bit about who your son was?

Jackie Casimire 02:32
Right, yeah, my son was born September 23. His name was Cornelious Ray Casimire. He was a very giving person. He loved to give back to. My son was the type of young man that if we was in, this has happened, we was riding through the neighborhood. And there was a older lady struggling to get her groceries in the house. And he said pull over Mom, I need to help her. And that's for the most part how he lived his life. He was a lifeguard in the Columbus public school system for over 10 years. He worked in the rec centers he worked in. He was daycare transportation, he took kids from school to daycare. He was a father of two like most black men, young black men, he struggled with getting his footing under him. He made some bad choices in his life. He was an avid gun collector. He went got his his license to conceal and carry. He really enjoys going to the range with his friends he influenced quite a few of his friends to do the same so that they would not face consequences of wanting to enjoy whatever it is that guns give men or people and enjoy shooting guns. And he really enjoyed going to the range to shoot his guns and it ultimately is what caused his death. He was killed and robbed for a gun.

Kit Heintzman 04:50
Do you member when you first heard about COVID-19?

Jackie Casimire 05:05
I'm sorry.

Kit Heintzman 05:06
Do you remember when you first heard about COVID-19?

Jackie Casimire 05:12
Um, yeah, I was home recovering from surgery. Earlier night earlier before there was such a thing. My my daughter in her, her family or her husband and her three kids got really, really sick. Particularly early her youngest, who suffer asthma. They diagnosed him with some form of pneumonia. We didn't know it then. And we still have not got confirmation but I believe they had was one of the first people who had COVID. She did work in [inaudible] work in Columbus public school system Yes, I was at home watching the news. Flabbergasted.

Kit Heintzman 06:12
What were some of your early impressions?

Jackie Casimire 06:14
Um I initially I felt that it was introduced to the system by the government to to control population. But as I as more information came available, and I did my research, I came to believe that it indeed was an infection that was not introduced into their population by the government and I just, it's horrendous.

Jackie Casimire 06:27
Would you tell me more about that research?

07:22
Um, you go to reliable sources. I did a lot on the CDC website. If, if I saw a post about something I would go in confirm or demise what's being said. Like everyone else, I was confused. I was I was willing to get the vaccination. Once I discovered the corona virus itself has already been in our society. It's it's the virus that causes the common cold. So wasn't a big jump for me that that had muted into something else. And when it came about time for the vaccination, I wasn't so confused, that they had came up with one so quickly, because I know it's something that they've been researching for years, how to cure the common cold.

Kit Heintzman 08:49
To the extent that you're comfortable sharing, would you say something about your experiences of health and healthcare infrastructur, pre pandemic?

Jackie Casimire 09:01
Um about my health? Well, I was a smoker. At the time where I quit smoking had been smoking, well over 20 years. I started smoking very young. As a result of my smoking, I was in and out of the hospital several times a year for several days at a time, due to asthma/COPD. I was able to quit smoking. I still have asthma. I also suffer from depression and anxiety. Otherwise, I'm relatively healthy. If I don't have any high blood pressure or diabetes or high cholesterol, I don't suffer any of those illnesses. I'm grateful for those. And with me quitting smoking and getting better lung strength I was able to avoid dying from the two infections of COVID I've personally had I believe that in myself with the vaccination.

Kit Heintzman 10:44
Staying in the pre pandemic world What was your day to day looking like?

Jackie Casimire 10:52
Work, home, spending time with family and friends on the weekend concerned about the state of our communities concerned about the state of police relations concerned about the state of our political things that was happening politically just a typical American person I'm assuming.

Kit Heintzman 11:29
And how did day to day life change once the pandemic hit and lockdown started?

Jackie Casimire 11:34
It was a struggle I think I was a little think I because I had been home for such a long time up over two or three months recovering from surgery and I live alone and I think that helped me in the isolation that we had to go into. I'm, I was 50 at the time 54 [inaudible]. I'm 56 54 55 at a time not the best at electronics so there's a lot of things I had to learn. I had to learn how to set up my own workstation at home that was shipped from work, I had to learn a new thing called Zoom.

Jackie Casimire 12:46
I had to deal with the loss of my son in isolation I had to plan a funeral an actual funeral we had tickets that we had to pass at all so I actually added to the guest list for my son's funeral it was pretty rough and I survived.

Kit Heintzman 13:29
Would you tell me more about the funeral? What was it like, who came?

Jackie Casimire 13:37
um what was the who came the funeral was it was difficult mostly close family and friends as I said my son was in was very well known. Had we had we been able to have our free and open funeral I'm sure there would have been standing room only. There was a lot of hurt feelings of people who were not able to attend because we just did not have the ticket. From I can remember correctly. I think we were allotted 60. 60 um 60 guests to attend.

Kit Heintzman 14:47
Where did you have it was at a funeral home a church?

Jackie Casimire 14:51
It was at a funeral homes. We actually was one of the one of the one of the like it was it was going to going to in person funerals had just re restarted again that technology of the funeral being streamed so those who cannot attend in purple in Perth person was able to view the whole ceremony online but it was at a funeral home.

Kit Heintzman 15:34
I'd be so grateful if you shared more about your journey into activism after his death.

Jackie Casimire 15:42
um, it's I guess it's not technically prior to his his death anytime I ran into like somebody in a sorority or fraternity or anybody who I felt had a voice. My concern was What are you don't about these young men out here killing each other? What are you doing? What are you doing? Like? Anybody who would listen? I am What are you doing? What are you doing? My dear friend and who was also an educator of my son had started an organization Mother's of Murdered Columbus Children. I went to go support her on, one second here, I went to go support her on Saturday. Let me give you the exact date. I went to go support Melissa on Saturday the 19th of September 2020 at a bit at a what she called her covering on Cleveland Avenue here in Columbus across the street from Chapel of peace funeral home as a supporter that following Thursday, my son was murdered and probably that next month or so I was kicked into activism.

Jackie Casimire 17:46
It's not a pain that any of the persons that should ever suffer I had a problem with them give me my son a number he was 111 homicide of the year. I found a voice that I did not know that I had I have become because of my past mental health. I knew I couldn't just sit in my grief because I would not have survived. So me getting into activism was also selfish. Without it I probably would not be here today. To be honest. I probably would have committed suicide I've met some amazing women men and children along the way. I think I've realized my the death of my son is bigger than me, yeah.

Kit Heintzman 19:36
What are some of the steps you took early on in activism?

Jackie Casimire 19:43
Showing up you showing up it's amazing when you show up for someone else it gets you out your headspace. Just showing up some of the, for the first few months or so, just showing up just being present. And then I gradually moved into more of a mentoring stance. I found myself during lives um to encourage other mothers to get up, just get up for the day sis wash your face brush your teeth just get up today. Pray prior to my son's death, I actually and prior to the pandemic, I was actually ready to host a voter registration drive. I had ordered all the voter registration pamphlets everything I needed I was hosting a drive because I felt the political climate was such these kids in the younger generation needed to get involved they needed to understand and I was I still believe that in my heart and I even continued at my son's service I had a voter registration table setup I think we registered 10 people at my son's funeral so I think those little things that I see me fussing with folks that I ran into for I ran into random police officer what are we doing what are we doing the voter registration is showing up that day four Melissa. I think they were all preparing me for what it was to be in what is still to be a really new in this journey of activism I have my sense foundation is in the making. Which is going to be it's a little different a lot different from what we do with Mothers Of Murdered Columbus Children. One of the things I've always said to my son when he made stupid choices is stupid mistake. Driving without license, getting a ticket. He turned 18 and was still in high school and was on suspension from high school and wentto another high school and caught a case for trespassing. Just minor irritating things that he would do. And I used to say to him, you're traveling down this road, at the end of the road, you're gonna have to make some choices. And the choices is going to be prison, death or you got to turn around and clean all this shit up out of your way. All the shit that you made in front behind you. You have to clean out, clean up and get to the end back to the end of the road and start over. In exactly what he was doing. He had got his license reinstated. He had got a non violent charge expunged from his account from his record. He had another little charge on his record that he was working on getting exponged he started his own foundation he was super involved in his kids life working, he made sure he kept his insurance he was very proud I got insurance on my car mom I got insurance. And this is this may seem minor to somebody on the outside looking in but this isn't easier for these young black men out here to even be able to insure afford insurance on their car. So his foundation will be CRay Casimire foundation and I want it to be like a gun buyback type program. You bring me a legitimate gun and we'll help clean up some of this garbage you put .in in the road for yourself

Kit Heintzman 25:10
How have you kept in touch with friends and family throughout all of this?

Jackie Casimire 25:17
Mostly social media mostly doing social media

Kit Heintzman 25:36
You've mentioned catching COVID. Would you tell me a bit about what that was like?

Jackie Casimire 25:43
Um, yeah, the my granddaughter was 12 10 11 [inaudible] when when we started lifting restrictions. She had been with me as my son. Since my son passed, she she wanted to stay with me. And they started lifting restrictions, and it was able to go rollerskating and she begged Mama, please, can we just go rollerskating? Please, can we just go roller skating and against my better judgment. But knowing that she also was isolated, she was not in contact with her friend. She hadn't been out the house. We went roller skating. And we both contracted COVID mines was I just had a what I would call just a early Fall cold, not even the flu, just a cold. She was a little more sicker, she lost her taste, and she lost her smell. And she ran fevers and all of that. And the second encounter that I got from COVID I'm not sure. We hosted a Mother's Of Murder Columbus children, we hosted a think it was a holiday extravaganza for the mothers. And shortly after that, I was diagnosed with COVID again, same symptoms, just like scratchy throat. I kept hitting having to hit my inhaler. But again, it was just for me, thank God and minor cold symptoms. I'd had no lingering long term effects of it.

Kit Heintzman 27:58
What's it been like hosting events during the pandemic?

Jackie Casimire 28:05
Um, initially it's scary, to be honest, because it's needed. We need to be able to as mother's mourning. And going through, a lot of us are still going through the court system, no closure. It's needed. But it's very knowing that every time we have a gathering, or an event that ourselves and everybody we know and have come to love is exposed is subject to contracting. It's what can be very deadly disease. But it's needed. Have not heard of anyone in our organization or their circle of people who have died from COVID because of a gathering that we've been at, but it is it is scary. It's scary. But the alternative could very well be that a mother could isolate to the point where he or she could commit suicide or get go so far down the black hole that they can never recover. It's a scary process. But it's a needed one. Unfortunately

Kit Heintzman 30:05
What are some of the things that you've noticed about other grieving mothers in the last couple of years?

Jackie Casimire 30:14
Um the one thing that we all have in common is some of the things that I found that we have in common after the noise is over the funerals and the initial shock I mean it gets real lonely family and friends start disappearing your child's name stops being mentioned you walk in a room you feel like the pink elephant you feel you feel as though people feel that you should be over it no confirmation on that. well, people have said it's been a year it's been two years move on there's no moving on past this we we there's no moving on. There's moving forward there's learning to live this new life it's it's isolation it's confusion is anger it's hard to be joyful.

Kit Heintzman 32:16
Did you have much interaction with the court system?

Jackie Casimire 32:22
Fortunately, not in my situation, we had to we once he was charged, we immediately made an appointment to go sit down with the prosecutor because my son is never number 111 My son was Cornelious Ray Casimire. So we went in met our prosecutors and we had for me we only had to go to court two times. The first time we went to court he was released on bail with no no repercussions. Like just free balling like, Oh, he's just out on bail, no reporting, no drug testing. And we got his his his bail restrict. We got his bail restricted. And the next interaction in court. We had with him the first interaction I got out of character pretty bad. In next interaction, he got his bail revoked because he did. He was dirty. And he made bail again. And when he while he was out on bail the second time he od'ed and died. So I was I didn't get the justice that I would have liked. I didn't get the apology or the why. But what I see now, now that second year in and they told me right off the bat, we're looking at two and a half three years of going through this process and what I'm seeing the other mothers go through, I'm grateful that I don't have to endure it. that pain. My scab that I'm trying to let grow and heal is not being ripped off every 60 6 months to a year, 3 to 6 months, and not being summons back to court or continuance. So I am grateful for that.

Kit Heintzman 35:27
What does what does justice look like for you?

Jackie Casimire 35:42
For me? there is no justice. I won't ever have justice. I have peace. I don't have justice. There is more people involved in my son's killing. The particular guy that was being charged, he claimed self defense. So the detective only focused on that aspect of it. And not the other people that we know were involved in, I believe they know is involved as well. I guess justice for me, really at this stage. But me and my family sat down. And we had a conversation. We probably could have went back to the Columbus police department and demanded them to investigate further.

Jackie Casimire 36:55
But we chose not to. We chose to let it rest at that point. My son was murdered in upwards of 10 guns were stolen from him. I guess, justice for me. If those guns could be recovered and taken off the street, that's probably what Justice would look like for me. But reality tells me that's never going to happen.

Kit Heintzman 37:31
I'm curious, what does the word health mean to you?

37:36
Health?

Kit Heintzman 37:38
Yes, ma'am.

Jackie Casimire 37:40
H-E-A-L-T-H

Kit Heintzman 37:42
That's the one

Jackie Casimire 37:50
Mental mental health is most important to me. Physical physical ailments are a little more easily cured. Been mental due to the stigma the shamefulness of it. So health to me means a good balance. Mentally if I have to be 100% Honest. Being a sufferer of major depression with suicidal ideology and attempt and mental health is a bigger challenge. So healthy, healthy mental health is that's what healthy means to me. I don't know anybody who's ever committed murder or self hurt because they have diabetes. But people are hurt and injured and killed daily because of mental health illness. So to me, being healthy, is having a good mental health balance.

Kit Heintzman 39:42
What do you think we're gonna need to change as a society to make it so that we could all have that better mental health balance?

Jackie Casimire 39:55
We have to recognize I recognize, traumaa and we have to deal with the trauma we I don't think there's any person that walks this earth has not faced some type of trauma there's a sector of the population who has trauma daily that's not being dealt with so recognizing in dealing with the trauma is a good first step once we recognize trauma and deal with the trauma I think the stigma of mental health illness will start to demise I feel as though there's a tide turning in that area more people are becoming where I guess with the young kids are calling woke to the fact that it's okay not to be okay today. And it's okay for for me to talk about not being okay today. So I think there's there's a tide changing. And that's the only way that that could continue to change is through education. Education is the key. People have to have to be told what it looks like. What it feels like how do we fix it? You're not alone. That That to me is is key.

Kit Heintzman 42:12
What does the word safety mean to you?

Jackie Casimire 42:16
What is it?

Kit Heintzman 42:18
What does the word safety mean to you?

Jackie Casimire 42:23
Safety?

Kit Heintzman 42:24
Yes, ma'am.

Jackie Casimire 42:27
Um safety means being safe from harm, mentally and physically. It means being in a space where it's okay not to be okay. And not to be judged for it. Safety for me personally. And I'm there today. being allowed to walk in my grief but also being aware that I can't stay there, I have to get up. Safety means I can go to the gas station and put gas in my car and not have to worry about somebody who has suffered childhood trauma and neglect to come up to me and cause me hard. Which goes back to mental health.

Kit Heintzman 43:54
There's been such a narrow biological focus of safety regarding COVID 19. I'm wondering under that teeny, tiny framework. What are some of the things that you've been doing to keep yourself feeling safer from the virus?

Jackie Casimire 44:11
The biggest thing I did was I get vaccinated. I have a medical team and I followed their advice. When my pulmonologist says it's time for a third booster, I'll go get a third booster. Um I wash my hands, my sanitize I'm not going to say I'm the best at maintaining a safe distance because in my field that I my field in my mental health requires hugging. So I'm not the best at maintaining that distance. And or wearing a mask. When the numbers tick ticks up, I tried to be more conscious of wearing a mask and I'm in public places covering covering my mouth when I cough when I blow my nose wash or sanitize my hands if I hear somebody with the cough distanced myself from them I'm more aware of the people around me people at my work but I refuse what I refuse to do is live in fear of this virus.

Jackie Casimire 44:33
I'd love to hear more about being a hugger and trying to navigate safety with that.

Jackie Casimire 45:58
When I'm when when when when we're in our when we're in our space we're not our grief sometimes all we need is a hug. Or we just need a hug is to me and but I hope that the mothers and anybody who I feel need to hug it's a transference of, of spirit and strength if you're in a bad dark place, and I can hug you and give you some of what is perceived as my strength and give you a strength to take a next step that's what a hug does. It's such a small gesture and of all the things that we can do it's nourishing it's transferring positive strength and energy and comfort and when you hug somebody and you feel the tension leave their body it's an amazing feeling

Kit Heintzman 48:07
Has your relationship [both speaking] please continue

Jackie Casimire 48:12
When someone hugs me or when I'm in my worse and I feel the tension leave my body is it an amazing feeling. Its letting someone know they're not alone.

Kit Heintzman 48:38
Has your relationship to touch changed over the last couple of years?

Jackie Casimire 48:52
No, no because yes. And yes. Because prior to the pandemic, and prior to my son murder, which is one of the same to me I probably would hug and touch more out of empathy or, Oh, that's what I'm supposed to do. Like I'm a hugger. I'm uh, I'm, I'm the person who's going to walk up behind you and rub your back. That's always been me. But I think the holes in the rubbing of the back the meanings behind those, or the affection behind those have changed if that makes any sense.

Kit Heintzman 50:19
You'd mentioned getting vaccinated. How did you decide to do that?

Jackie Casimire 50:25
That there, I had a conversation with my providers. Um, I'm already I'm already getting my flu vaccination every year. I know with getting my flu shot every year has done for me because I've been deadly ill with the flu in the past. So I'm old enough to know what everybody in the house has chickenpox looks like I'm old enough to know what the mumps look like. I know I'm old enough my kids did not suffer those same childhood illnesses at the same level that we did. So I am a believer in vaccination I believe in science so when I spoke with my my providers, particularly my pulmonologist and he confirmed and assured me that it's safe it was it was a no brainer it's vaccination is a no brainer to me

Kit Heintzman 51:48
How accessible was the vaccine for you?

Jackie Casimire 51:52
Oh very assessable

Kit Heintzman 51:53
How are you feeling about the immediate future?

Jackie Casimire 52:14
That is a loaded question that you're asking me right now because I am in what we call our season my son's birthday is tomorrow the anniversary of his death is the next day so right now just looks a lot of sadness. But I know that I will find the strength within myself and my family and friends and my sisters that I'll be okay um not only is tomorrow my son's birthday I been elected into our special mentoring up [inaudible] program at work and tomorrow is what is called is one of the big events of the program be networking I will be meeting with some very big top executives within a company that I work for I have to sell myself I have to be professional smiling so immediate future is scary as hell for me cuz I don't I don't know where I'm gonna find my strength for tomorrow

Kit Heintzman 54:22
What are your hopes? Oh, please continue sorry.

Jackie Casimire 54:26
I wasnt saying anything else.

Kit Heintzman 54:30
What are some of your hopes for a longer term future?

Jackie Casimire 54:34
Um, some of my hopes is that tomorrow is amazing. That tomorrow will bring me some, as of this program some more financial stability so that I can move forward with my son foundation and make changes in the lives that needed the most. So not only is our is my life depending on success tomorrow the success of my son's foundation rides or me being successful tomorrow so when I when I least think I've got the strength to do what I need to do it comes so I'm hoping tomorrow it does show up I'm allowing myself to breathe today I'm trying to get through this knowing what tomorrow and the next day is so tomorrow we'll be successful which would mean my career path would be successful which will allow me to move my son's foundation forward and hit the ground running the first of the year.

Kit Heintzman 56:35
When you need support, who do you turn to?

Jackie Casimire 56:39
My sisters in organization.

Kit Heintzman 56:53
Could you tell me a story about a moment where you've turned to someone for support?

Jackie Casimire 57:01
Oh see if I can isolate one. So, I I just pick up the phone and call or I do a live I find a way to let someone know that hey I'm in a bad space and I need some encouraging words I think I'm it just happened there [inaudible] there. I don't know. I don't know

Kit Heintzman 58:31
What are some of the things you do to take care of yourself?

Jackie Casimire 58:39
I do a lot of lives. I'm taking care of others. I'm giving my sister's support. It fills my bucket being open and honest. I'm sharing my vulnerability in this process, and not just this process with mental health, I'm allowing myself not to be okay. It fills my bucket accepting the fact that I am a tool that things that happens to me for me because of me has very little to do with me date that helps me to to stay mentally healthy gives me strength to see another day.

Kit Heintzman 1:00:25
Do you think of COVID-19 as a historic moment a historic event?

Jackie Casimire 1:00:32
Absolutely absolutely

Kit Heintzman 1:00:39
What about it is historic?

Jackie Casimire 1:00:44
um, I'm living through it it's not the first illness that swept the nation and world those are all documented as well as being historic hopefully it's a once in a lifetime event which I believe it's now moved from a pandemic to an endemic so it's not just going to be a way of life and not a way of life but not a ruler of life because I feel that the pandemic the COVID virus be the strategies around it was ruining our lives for a while I feel that the history of it is that another one came in humanity overtook it so I definitely feel as historic in nature is going to be in.

Kit Heintzman 1:02:31
What do you think those of us in the social sciences and humanities, so people who study things like literature and sociology and political science, what should we be doing right now to better understand the human side of COVID-19?

Jackie Casimire 1:02:50
Continue to do what you're doing. Getting to the core of it, I'm listening sharing what you're finding be sure that the information that you're sharing is accurate and correct. Do your research be mindful of other people's views and beliefs and keep keep your separate from that keep standing your truth but in your science like the science be the ruler.

Kit Heintzman 1:03:50
What are some of the things you wish that you would learned more about when you were younger in history?

Jackie Casimire 1:04:07
I would have to say probably if I had to choose it probably would be politics how policy and procedure affects everyday life. If I really thought more, I'm what I would have dug in more is to understand the political process in how the policies affect my everyday life.

Kit Heintzman 1:05:16
I'd like you to imagine speaking to a historian in the future someone far enough away that they have no lived experience of this moment. What would you tell them cannot be forgotten about right now?

Jackie Casimire 1:05:43
Wow let's not believe letss lets let's let's believe that science is based on facts science is key. Learn, study gather your own facts follow the science. I'm a firm believer in science.

Kit Heintzman 1:06:47
I want to thank you so, so much for the generosity of your time, and the kindness and vulnerability in your answers. Those are all of the questions I know how to ask at this moment. But I'm wondering if there's anything you'd like to say that my questions haven't made room for? Please take some space and sick share it.

Jackie Casimire 1:07:12
Alright, at this point, I don't nothing's coming to me nothing, nothing just personally for yourself. Meet people where they're at. Don't expect somebody to react and feel the way you feel. Just meet them where they're at. That's it.

Kit Heintzman 1:07:52
Thank you so much.

Jackie Casimire 1:07:54
You're welcome.