Kathy Maloney Oral History, 2022/09/13

Self Description - "I have three titles. In essence, I'm a separation and divorce coach, I'm a family mediator. And I'm also a relationship transition, relationship transition coach. And they all sort of work together in tandem, depending on where my clients are, at any given time in their relationship with another with themselves, that sort of thing. Yeah, and I'm a coach. So I help people, I help people from where they are today to where they want to be in the future in terms of personal growth, understanding how they got here, when it comes to separations and divorces, very relationship oriented. "

Some of the things we discussed include:

Finishing a long divorce process in early 2020.
Starting a business early in the pandemic as a family and divorce coach, a mediator, and an end of relationship coach.
Children staying home during lock down, online homeschooling.
Disagreeing with ex-husband about vaccination, decisions about what that means for their children.
Work requirements for vaccination.
COVID touch and surface transmission; cleanliness.
Clients trying to date during COVID; clients in lockdown with partners they don’t like.
Socialized healthcare in Canada, pre- and mid-pandemic.
Different reactions to the pandemic grounded in different experiences: illness, bereavement, etc.
Slavery and transgenerational trauma.
Children learning social behaviours from parents.
Black Ukrainians being turned away by refugee services.
A new relationship.
Younger generations not wanting to have children.
Going for walks with friends.
Nature taking back the cities during lock down.
How painful Black history can be; histories that don’t get told.

Other cultural references: Martin Luther King, Tony Robbins, Mindvalley, YouTube, Netflix

September 13, 2022 10:04

Kit Heintzman

Kathy Maloney

Kit Heintzman

English Health & Wellness

English Home & Family Life

English Race & Ethnicity

actor

Canadian

relationship

BIPOC

mask

vaccine

acting

Black

Canada

coach

divorce

groceries

masking

motherhood

Ontario

race

racism

school

selflove

Toronto

vaccination

Black Voices

Canada

Motherhood

09/17/2022

08/24/2023

09/13/2022

Kit Heintzman

Kathy Maloney

Toronto

Ontario

Canada

Video

English

01:28:47

Finishing a long divorce process in early 2020. Starting a business early in the pandemic as a family and divorce coach, a mediator, and an end of relationship coach. Children staying home during lock down, online homeschooling. Disagreeing with ex-husband about vaccination, decisions about what that means for their children. Work requirements for vaccination. COVID touch and surface transmission; cleanliness. Clients trying to date during COVID; clients in lockdown with partners they don’t like. Socialized healthcare in Canada, pre- and mid-pandemic. Different reactions to the pandemic grounded in different experiences: illness, bereavement, etc. Slavery and transgenerational trauma. Children learning social behaviors from parents. Black Ukrainians being turned away by refugee services. A new relationship. Younger generations not wanting to have children. Going for walks with friends. Nature taking back the cities during lock down. How painful Black history can be; histories that don’t get told.

Kit Heintzman 00:00
Hello.

Kathy Maloney 00:01
Hi, how are you?

Kit Heintzman 00:03
I'm doing well yourself?

Kathy Maloney 00:05
Good. Excellent.

Kit Heintzman 00:07
Would you please state your name, the date, the time and your location?

Kathy Maloney 00:11
Yep. Kathy Maloney. It is Tuesday, September the 13th at 10:04am. And I'm in Toronto, Canada.

Kit Heintzman 00:18
And the year is 2022.

Kathy Maloney 00:20
22! Yes, it is.

Kit Heintzman 00:23
And you consent to having this interview recorded, digitally uploaded and publicly released under a Creative Commons license attribution noncommercial sharealike. Thank you so much for being here with me today. Would you please start by introducing yourself to anyone who might find themselves listening, what would you want them to know about you?

Kathy Maloney 00:41
What I would want people to know about me is that I am, I have three titles. In essence, I'm a separation and divorce coach, I'm a family mediator. And I'm also a relationship transition, relationship transition coach. And they all sort of work together in tandem, depending on where my clients are, at any given time in their relationship with another with themselves, that sort of thing. Yeah, and I'm a coach. So I help people, I help people from where they are today to where they want to be in the future in terms of personal growth, understanding how they got here, when it comes to separations and divorces, very relationship oriented. Understanding they're themselves at their core, their essence, I'm not a therapist, there is a very difference between a therapist and a coach, a therapist is somebody who's going to sort of live in your past, they're going to dig really, really deep to pull out all those, all that stuff, all those demons that live inside of you and where they come from, and why and all that, as a coach, what I do in essence, is I take you where you're at today. And we look maybe a little bit into your past, just so that you can have a grounding and understanding of how you got here. But really, and truly, it's where you want to get to in the future and how we're going to get you there.

Kit Heintzman 01:57
Tell me a story about your life during the pandemic.

Kathy Maloney 02:00
So my life during the pandemic, this is actually when I decided to start my business. And it wasn't it wasn't because of the pandemic it was because I too, went through a divorce. So from personal experience 2017, really to 2019. And my divorce was finalized on February 4 2020, the pandemic hit March 2020. So that was it was sort of like a blessing in disguise. I know that a lot of people look at divorce as this horrible thing. And I know for me, it really was an opportunity to reset my life. And so that's sort of the perspective that I decided to get into business with. So I'm a neuro linguistic programmer, if you know, Ll, NLP. I started off with that more for self purposes, but just to rebuild myself in 2020. And the more I started to tell my story, the more I realized a lot of people are hurting. A lot of people are hurting because they're just in relationships that are not serving them anymore. And they don't know what to do. They don't know how to get out, whether it's finances, children, abuse, just all of that feeling stuck feeling unworthy, unloved, not able to love themselves, which is a huge thing in my practice. And so I really thought long and hard about what do I want to do with the next phase of my life moving forward? And coaching this, this whole knowledge based industry has just exponentially exploded. And I started looking into it. And I thought I could do this. This is I have a sociology degree. I have a background in this. And I'm doing this. So here we are. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 03:48
Do you remember when you first heard about COVID-19?

Kit Heintzman 03:52
When I first heard about COVID, I don't think I really got it. I knew that people were sick. And I knew people were dying. And I think Italy was the big thing. All the elderly people in the nursing home and China of course, of course. And so I thought it was I think a lot of people thought it was over there, right? It didn't have anything to do with us until it had something to do with us. And then it was oh, okay, hang on a second. They're about to shut everything down and what's happening. And I will tell you that I was very grateful my divorce was over. And I was living by myself at this point. Because I could not imagine living in the situation for myself and I mean for other people it may not have been as bad but for me personally, you know, and my ex husband, you know, we all go through our thing. I go through my thing, but living in a situation where you don't want to be there and having to be forced to be stuck in a home twenty-four seven, with someone or with people who you are, your spirit is just not connecting with any more, I think is almost devastating. And that's what the pandemic did. So when I heard about the pandemic, the first thing other than realizing okay, this is this is hitting us at home, was to really count my blessings in the sense of, I am so grateful that I have my own space. And I can breathe, because I cannot fathom what my life would be like living in a household where I was not comfortable. So yeah.

Kit Heintzman 05:34
What was your day to day looking like pre pandemic?

Kathy Maloney 05:38
My day to day pre pandemic, again, I was going through divorce so it was a lot of legal stuff. It was busy. It was, it was stressful, but I handled it with grace, that that's just my personality. And it was it was it was tough that my days leading up to it, because I've been going through a divorce since 2017. And when you are going through a separation and divorce, it really does consume your life until it's kind of done and even when it's done. It's not really done. Because if you have children, you know the story. But before that, yeah, it was just busy. I was I was busy, spiraling busy trying to stay busy. Because I didn't want to be there, right? So I think my life was it was different. It wasn't roses, it wasn't all perfect. It wasn't great. I was already in the throes of a pretty high conflict, divorce. And so the pandemic again, I was grateful that I was already out and had my own space before a month before it hit because I don't know what that would have looked like, if I was still in it. So, yeah.

Kit Heintzman 06:52
Being in the pre pandemic time timeline, to the extent that you're comfortable sharing, would you say something about your experiences with health and healthcare infrastructure against before the pandemic hit?

Kathy Maloney 07:03
Yeah, my experience with health and health care was, and I think that a lot of people in health care they they're in health care, because they want to help. Okay, whether it's the the nurses, the doctors, the paramedic specialists, whatever, whoever you are, I found I've never had an issue. Okay, yeah, we have wait times in the emerge and, you know, in that sort of thing, but that's to be expected. It's, it's an arch, right, it's the hospital. However, I think that, in my opinion, I've always felt that people have abused the system. I live in Canada. So we have OHIP, right, people don't pay necessarily for their health care here, pay in the sense of, you know, every time you go, you're you're giving money to doctors, and all that sort of stuff. It's not like that. So I find that I have always believed that people have taken advantage of it. And if they actually had to pay to come to the hospital for the frivolous things that I believe a lot of people go to the hospital for, they wouldn't go, they would really start to do some problem solving at home. But because our health care system here in Canada, is what it is, and I'm grateful for it. I think a lot of people do take advantage of it. So when the pandemic hit, if I can fast forward, I think when the pandemic hit, it was, again, exponentially blown up where people would show up at the hospital, I'm you know, we see the news and all that sort of stuff. Even though they were told at some point to stay home, if you had the symptoms, and you kind of knew what you had you work through it, which then went to the wonderful argument, well, it's just a cold. And I get that too, right? Because if they're saying, Well, we know what it is, so just stay home and, and go through it is like, Okay, well, is it really a pandemic? Or is it another type of flu? But people are dying. So let's take this a little bit more seriously. And so the people will just go to the hospital, just because, you know, just to get sent back home, and now they've infected everybody on their way there. You know, so I just think a lot of people do take advantage of our health care system, and then they they plug up the system. So if you're calling 911, which is the number we call, and you have a paramedic on route to you, because you're feeling the symptoms, but there's somebody else who's not breathing. And there's someone else with major, major issues due to the pandemic or whatever their other issues are, heart attacks, whatever. The availability now is just not there for them. So and then people I think we're just scared at this point. So it's the extreme people wouldn't, who were able to get up physically and go to a hospital would just go and be like, I don't feel well. And the people who were literally dying and actually, I think needed to go to the ER, the ER, were so scared. They didn't want to go because they're like, but it's COVID I'm like, you might have COVID And you're not breathing well. And then it's too late, you know, and a lot of them ended up maybe passing at home or you know, nursing homes or whatever the case may be. So it was was tough. It was tough, I think, for our health care system overall to keep up and then you know, of course the staff getting sick or whatever, it's tough. It was it was really tough to watch. Really, yeah.

Kit Heintzman 10:14
What was it like when lockdown happened where you are?

Kathy Maloney 10:18
When lockdown happened where I what, where I am, schools. Oh the homeschoolers, I have two kids. So my, I have a 12 year old and a 10 year old now. So when the lockdown hit, they were a little bit younger. And I don't think we realized that because at first it was okay, kids are gonna stay home. And then we're looking to get them back into school. And we were like, Okay, well, when if that didn't happen, and so we're like, oh, so I have to stay home. Now I have to shift everything in my world, because my kids need to be home. And I didn't plan for this. So it was, it was it was hard. The lockdown was hard in the beginning, because we didn't know how long it was going to be. We didn't know what it was gonna look like. So so from a kid's perspective, again, I was already out of my house. So I was in my happy place. But now the kids and you're you're you're going back and forth with between parents. And you're like, do we go on a, okay, so for me personally, our schedule shifts during the summer vacation. And I think a lot of separated and divorced parents, they have to work out their parenting time. And so for me, it was one week on one week off in the summer, during the school year, we split the week. So Tuesday, Thursdays me with Monday, Wednesdays, my ex husband and every other Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And we didn't know what to do. We didn't know like, what are we doing? We're going on a holiday schedule? Are we sticking to the weekly schedule? So it was a lot of rejigging life with children, and your work. And then fortunately, a lot of people ended up working from home. So that became a good benefit, because now you're home with your kids. Because otherwise you were just like, I can't come to work. I have my kids. So when when companies shut down, and everybody had to start, you know, shifting to online, the transition was fun. That was interesting. And as a mediator, you know, I would meet people, but now I can't. So it was it was and I wasn't really meeting a lot of people because I just started my practice. But for coaching, I was at that point. And so I was like, huh, how's this gonna work? So I had to learn how to do it online, and make this the norm. And I'm actually quite grateful that that is like this, because I think I my reach has expanded because of it. So I'm I am grateful. So there are blessings in disguise, I guess you can say. We've all discovered a whole other way of doing things like this interview with you all the way in Philadelphia. So I love that. Right? Yeah, that's that's pretty much how the lockdown affected me.

Kit Heintzman 13:03
How much do you think your children understood about what was happening?

Kathy Maloney 13:08
I think initially, the kids were just happy. They didn't have to go to school. That was that, right? So on that note, they were like, Yeah, this is great. And then with the online school again, they were they weren't doing much, you know, they every minute they were out for snacks and all kinds of stuff. I'm like what's happening here. So the kids and kids are quite resilient kids will just sort of make light of a lot of things. Because from my family, we never, nobody ever really got sick or anything like that. So my kids didn't witness that they didn't. Nobody died in my family or in my immediate circle. But I also know families where both parents passed away, or one parent passed away or grandparent passed away. And it obviously would have affected them very different than it would have my own family. During the pandemic, I know that a couple of my clients had to caregive for their their family members with COVID. And then they got COVID. And then their kids got COVID and it was just this trickle down. And then you know, the depression really starts to kick in. Because people are dying and nobody knows what this is. And so I think if you were directly hit with the illness and witnessed and you were a part of people passing away really being sick was one thing because you know, you get people do get sick, and they've my kids have gotten flus and we've gotten flus, and we've worked through that. And they they understand that my kids weren't afraid of death because we didn't really highlight that for them to see. And they didn't experience it. So it was you know, my kids got COVID I'd never got COVID My children got COVID Their dad got COVID and they were fine. You would never have known. So it was nothing for them. But for others. It was very different. Very different experience, very traumatic. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 14:55
How did you talk to your children about what was going on?

Kathy Maloney 14:59
Okay, So I'm living in two different households with two very different perspectives on COVID. So for myself, I'm vaccinated, I have, I have followed the protocols, I go to the grocery store, I come home to this day, and I wipe my groceries down. Because in my opinion, everybody has COVID It's just the way it is. And so and I will maintain that I've always done this not because of COVID, just because of being you know, the flu and, and whatever is out there, I don't really want any part of that. And so I have always had a certain certain level of practice where I'd wipe things down. My ex husband and not to speak too much about him in that sense, but not vaccinated, not interested in getting vaccinated not interested in our children being vaccinated, thinks it's all just, it's a cold, he's that he has that perspective. So challenging. Speaking to my children, about COVID About the vaccine, I don't know if you're gonna jump to the vaccine, but I'm sorry, I'm just lumping it together. My children witnessed my best friend and I both getting the vaccine at the exact same time, both vaccines I had, I have to I should be getting my booster. But then my another one of my best friends has had his vaccine, and everybody we know had his vaccine, my mother did not she's on that side to where I'm not doing this. But yet, my son, who would have heard stories from his dad is like, Nah, but people die. I don't want to do it, I'm not doing it. And so I'm like, okay, so I didn't push it. And I just, it became a non conversation. Because I know that my, at the time 10 year old, 11 year old, he really doesn't understand it. And it really was a decision as parents that we needed to make together. And again, coming out of a high conflict divorce, I've learned to pick and choose battles. And in Canada, you had to be 12 years old. 12 years old, was the age where they needed you to get vaccinated. Not before that, so I thought I have at least another year and a half, where I don't need to talk about this. So we're just not going to talk about it. And that's what I did, I chose to just not talk about. So that's how I handle that.

Kit Heintzman 17:30
What's [motherhood] meant to you over the last couple years?

Kathy Maloney 17:33
Motherhood, as my children get older, and they're at quite an amazing age right now. It has meant communicating like I've never communicated before, it has meant really taking a look at myself and seeing myself, I see myself a lot in my daughter, I see a lot of my ex husband and my son. And there are a lot of there are a lot of things that I needed to, I want to say check myself for. You know, divorce isn't one way it's a two way street. And there's a lot of things that you hopefully learn about yourself and the way that you've handled things. Love languages, the way that you have, you know coexisted with someone, the way that you've attended to their needs, the way that you have asked for your needs to be met, you know, setting boundaries, all the things that come in relationships that we all just kind of assume that the other person knows to do. I have learned that watching my my children and really like realizing how much my son is like my ex husband, how much my daughter's like me even just watching their interaction together. It's like, oh, it's like this little micro version of my ex and I and I was like, Oh, this, we need to fix this, we need to fix this. So it's a lot of toning her down. Because that was me I would be you know, animated. And wanting to get my point across when you're dealing with someone whose levels keep going up, you find yourself trying to match and I quickly realized that doesn't work. But I could see my daughter instinctively, you know, wanting to push that bar, she's the younger one. And my son just shutting down, just shutting down. But when my son was ready to come for her. It wasn't fun all the time. And I could see that my ex husband would do this. So I saw a lot of us in them. And so I thought, communication, talk to these kids, you know, really get them to understand relationships and what it takes to to have a loving, kind, open, authentic, honest relationship where people actually want to be around you. And it's not just in a love relationships. It's in a brother sister relationship. It's in a parent child relationship. It's in a friendship group. It's all of those things. So when it comes to my kids, I have I have opened the floodgate of communication for them. We talked about everything. We do check ins now, you know, how are you feeling. And at first, it was very hard for my son to talk about how he was feeling that he'd be so pent up. And like my ex, there's a lot of things I wish I had done very differently in my marriage. I don't know if I would still be married to date today, but because of the communication, and because of my abilities, now just step back and sort of watch my children watch my son, in particular, there are a lot of things I would have done differently in my marriage. So I actually thank my kids were giving me that gift of personal growth, really. So we, you know, we help each other, we're helping each other and they don't even know that they're helping me but because I believe that I'm an evolved human. And I continue to evolve, it's my responsibility to make sure that my kids are okay. on every level, not just academically, but in terms of their emotional health and, and well being that sort of thing. I'm really focused on that for them.

Kit Heintzman 18:06
You mentioned that your client base expanded during the pandemic, would you introduce me a bit to sort of who your clients are? And then what that expansion looked like for you?

Kathy Maloney 21:12
Yeah, a lot of men, a lot of men, a lot of older men. And I did not expect that. Did not expect that at all. I'm like, my eldest client right now is 72. I'm like, this is a this is wild, in my opinion. And so yeah, elderly men, older men, like 50s. And up. And I think what I've, what I've come to understand is that men aren't heard. Men just aren't heard. We as women, I obviously, I'm not speaking for all women, but, and I know that I was one of those women with my ex husband, who we just felt they should have known certain things, right? Or, because my love language was not the same as their love language, a lot of women only operate from their love language. And that whole, love language conversation, which I think is just brilliant. I don't think a lot of let's say people, men are a little bit more accommodating to women's love languages, ironically. But women, we tend to stick to our love language, which for a lot of us is acts of service, I've come to realize. And because we're doing for our partner, and we expect our partner to be appreciative of that, we expect them to love us, because we're helping we're doing we're supporting, we're doing all of these amazing things. Because a lot of us are pleasers, a lot of us are, are fixers, the men, a lot of them their love language is personal touch. And so from what I have come to realize, and a lot of women can tap out in that department quite quickly. And it becomes this ping pong effect of, he's not getting his physical needs met, she's getting annoyed. And it just keeps going back and forth. She's withholding sex, let's just say or she's withholding communication, she's withholding intimacy. And therefore, he's not saying thank you for all the wonderful things that she's doing for him during the day, you know, in taking care of the kids or, you know, driving all around the place, and, you know, supporting him in his work. And so the disconnect really starts to happen. And I find that a lot of these men, they just want to connect with their with their partner. And it's not so easy. It's not so easy. So I really get them to focus on communicating what they actually need, doing the work on themselves. Because sometimes, once you communicate, you're still not going to get the result that you want. And then unfortunately, hard decisions do have to be made. Whether whether these men have been cheated on which a few of them have, or they have just felt like their their partner accommodates them, and they don't really feel the connection. They feel guilty for wanting to leave because the partner, the ex partner does do a lot for them. But they're still not happy because their needs aren't actually being met, then they go and cheat or whatever. It's it's a lot. It's a lot. And I yeah, I just find that women are also I think a little bit easier to bounce back, you know, in terms of their emotional health and a lot of time, it's not that they're bouncing back. We just have the ability to block it out and be like, it's his problem. Right? He sucks. And he did this to me. Whereas with men, they're really trying to understand, for the most part unless you're a full on narcissist, and you just think that it's everybody else's problem. And there's a lot of that too. I think these men, the men that come to me anyway, they are genuinely looking for help to figure out what do I do? How do I connect with her? A lot of women want a cheerleader in their nonsense. A lot of the time they do, and I'm not that person, I give you straight goods I, when I'm coaching you, it's you need to take accountability, you need to understand your role, I am not going to tell you things that you want to hear, because that's not serving you. You have your friends for that. Right? So if you're coming to me, if you're paying me money, it's because you want the straight truth and you want to be better, right? To know better to know is to do better. So yeah, that's and a lot of men I find that come to me, they really just want to be better. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 25:35
Did you notice anything in your clients needs changing because of the pandemic?

Kathy Maloney 25:39
There needs changing. The one focus that I that I've had from day one is self love. They didn't realize as their needs were changing, they could talk about the stuff I need. I mean, we could talk about the physical stuff, the worldly stuff, the possessions, yes, the need for space, they need to be alone, the need to be away from this person, the need the need to feel something, the need to feel better, they need to do better. And the one thing that I would always bring my clients back to, is the actual need to understand loving yourself, you know, I have a saying, it's like, I'm gonna teach you how to love yourself, maybe for the first time in your life, to be honest. And once I once we start to go down that path of self love, you know, I run a group, a group coaching session, and I had a woman say, in one of the group coaching coaching sessions, after 40 minutes, she goes, I have never thought more about myself in 40 something years than I have in this 40 minutes. And it's true, a lot of us just don't take the time to love on ourselves, you know, what do what do we need? What do we want, what makes us happy, what makes us tick? Before you get into a marriage, a lot of the the hobbies and you know, the things that that brought you joy just kind of go by the wayside, because now you have a family and a husband and children and a house and, and all of these things. And so you really do start to lose yourself. So I think that from my clients just giving, giving them permission to love on themselves, and to take those breaks for themselves. They were like, Oh, I didn't even know I needed that. Right? Because they're so caught up in all the stuff that's happening around them. So yeah, that was that's huge. It's still is huge.

Kit Heintzman 27:36
The last few years have had so much going on, that isn't just the pandemic and isolation. Would you say something about the other political social issues that have been on your mind in part over the last couple of years?

Kathy Maloney 27:49
I'm Black, let's just call that what it is. You know, the whole Black Lives Matter, the whole bipoc, all of that stuff that comes out. It's huge. It's deep. It's traumatic. It's disturbing. And it's disturbing and dramatic and all of those things. Because I think a lot of people who are from the community, like who are not white, let's call it what it is. We live with a lot of traumas from our past, that we are not even conscious of, there's so very deep in all of us. And generational traumas are real. My parents had their traumas based on their parents traumas based on their parents traumas based on their parents, traumas, which dates all the way back to slavery, of course. And so and this is just my own personal experience. I am from Barbados. It's a very small island, little England used to be little England, and now we are no longer part of England. And that is for a reason. And so I think that the more conscious we have become about the generational traumas that have been done to us. And it's not to say that it's because of any I mean, let's listen. There's a lot of things that are going on today that, in my opinion, just shouldn't be whether it's police brutality, or whatever the case may be, and it's not all cops okay, I've I know lovely cops. But it's real for for us. And I think there is just a level of there's a level of understanding that we have to come to grips with that this is real like this is still happening. You know, Martin Luther King made a speech that today the speech is beyond relevant. Like it's crazy how relevant his speech still is. And that is troublesome. It's very sad and it hurts. And so, personally, we've had to deal with the realities that nothing has changed. In essence, the you know, in a overall perspective. But at the same time, I think that, you know, I have a lot of friends who are not black, a lot of friends who are white, and they are trying to understand. And so it's just we're all just trying to grow in understanding, I hope, I really hope I know my friends are. And it's hard to talk about, you know, it's really hard. We're all dancing, because we don't want to offend each other. But it's real, the hurt is real. And, you know, the conversations, let's be honest, the conversations that I have with my black friends are very different than the conversations I have with my white friends. And that's the truth. Right? And that's just me being honest. And the pandemic, I think, has, how can I say it has really highlighted, I'm also an actor. And I think that for me, in the acting industry, more so than any other industry, just because that's, that's what I'm a part of. I have seen, you know, a lot of black actors, it's, it's tough. It's, it's been tough for generations, centuries, whatever to work. And to be considered leads in movies, or whatever the case may be, it's changing now, but it's changing. Because of the whole BIPOC movement and all that sort of stuff. Before it was affirmative action, you know, you have to hire black people, because whatever, it's the same thing to, in my opinion, BIPOC, affirmative action, it's all the same thing. And I know that doesn't sit well with a lot of people, it doesn't sit well with us as as people of color. And I know, it doesn't sit well with a lot of white people who have been are forced to, to hire, you know, people of color, just because we are people of color. And I think that also, that's also another tension builder. Where you know, and whether or not you're qualified, or you're great, or whatever the case may be, listen, people hire who they want to hire, because they like them, because they can communicate with them, because they can connect with them. Because they have something in common with them. This is reality, this is life. And I know it, right, we all know it. And so when you are the person that is given, you know, the Go ahead, the the entrance, you know, the gates opened wide for you, because someone has to do it. That's not a good feeling. It's not a good feeling, right, but we do it and we shine, and we move forward as people of color. And it is what it is. At this point. I don't know how to change it. I wish I had, you know, the magic wand to say this is nonsense. Uh, why are we doing this to each other. But I don't, I can only do my part in having people love themselves. And I hope that in loving yourself, you will then love others, regardless of their color. Right? Because this is not something I can control. I was born like this, right? It is what it is, you know, I look at the Ukraine, and where I think that that is just devastating. It's all just devastating. But while also being black and watching the black Ukrainians being shut out. I'm gonna leave it at that. Not happy not okay with that.

Kit Heintzman 33:13
I'm curious, what does the word health mean to you?

Kathy Maloney 33:20
The word health, to me? That's a great question. What does the word health mean to me? No one's ever asked me that one. Funny enough, the only word that I can think of is, is happy. I have a saying that I lived by during my divorce. And I want to be happy and I want Okay, so I woke up every day. And what I said to myself to get through it all was I'm going to live with integrity, style, class and grace. So I can be happy, healthy and whole. That's what I said, every single day because I was not going to play his game, I was not going to succumb to his game. I was going to do this my way with my integrity intact. And I was going to be happy, which meant I was healthy. I had to take care of my body. I had to take care of my mental. I had to take care of my surroundings. I had to get rid of anything that was a distraction, anything that was negative. And that wasn't uplifting. It wasn't supportive, I needed to just eliminate all of that. So being healthy, I don't think is just about your physic like your your you know your you don't have any illnesses. I think it's about your mental state. I think it's about Yes, taking care of your body. I think it's about socializing. I think it's about doing the things that make you happy, unapologetically. Right, but with respect. So, yeah, I think it just being healthy means just be happy. Find a way to make yourself happy because if you're not happy you're probably stressed which You're probably going to be unhealthy. Oh, yeah. And live in an unhealthy way. Too much alcohol, too much weed too much, whatever. You know, it's all that trickle down.

Kit Heintzman 35:13
What do you think are some of the structural changes we would need to make to make that version of health accessible to everyone?

Kathy Maloney 35:21
That version of health, the structural changes. In terms of what do you mean? Expand on that question for me.

Kit Heintzman 35:29
Sure. If we wanted to achieve and attain that version of health where people are happy and thus taking care of themselves, how do we get people to be happier and better suited to tend to that self care?

Kathy Maloney 35:45
How do we get people do that? That's, that's a, that's a great way of phrasing it because I think a lot of people will, would phrase a question like that, how do we get people, we don't get people to do anything. That's the problem. We have to have a system in place where people are held accountable. Right? We have to have people acknowledge and own, I'm going to say it their bullshit, right? You have to start, people just need to stop for a minute? And do a lot of self reflection on Who am I people don't even know who they are. People are just like robots. We're just moving along, you know? And so and then we wonder why we end up in all these messes and all these crazy divorces, and all these marriages that are these or dating the exact same person and wondering what the hell's wrong with that person? Well, what's wrong with you, that you keep choosing that person? What's wrong with you? That you know, and we've seen it over and over again, where people want to lose weight, for example, you know, where they want to stop drinking, or they, they want to stop doing something, because they know it's not healthy for them. We know, there's nothing that we don't know, the workout industry or whatever is huge, right? There's no industry right now, that's not huge. The resources that we have today are huge, we have so much. And yet, everybody just loves to complain about how horrible their life is and how unhealthy they are, and, and what they should be doing. But don't do. So, for me, it's not a matter of what, what should we, you know, get people to do, it's a matter of people, you just have to want to be better. We have to it has to be like billboards everywhere, you need to be better, you need to start living your own truth. If you if you say something mean, what you say, say what you mean, right? And live by that is not up to anybody else on this planet to make you happy. It just doesn't work that way. You know, and in fact, the more you fight for someone else to make you happy, the more miserable you're actually going to be. Right? Because they're living their truth, why aren't you living yours. And just because someone is not in alignment with you, I don't care if it's a, if it's a husband, or a boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever the case may be, or a work your boss or whatever. We love to lay blame, we love to lay blame, we love to take stuff off of our shoulder and put it on someone else, and not take accountability. So what we should be doing is owning our own bullshit, I maintain that, that's what we should be doing. And once we can acknowledge that we've got some flaws, and we've gone about communicating with people in the not so good way. We haven't set our boundaries, and then we expect people to just know and read our mind as to what we want and don't want, it doesn't work. And when we start to realize that that doesn't work, then we should start to find ways to better ourselves and start to find ways to communicate and start to find ways to you know, communicate our boundaries with people. And again, that's what my clients come to me for because I hold them accountable. You know, I really do hold them accountable, I get them to talk their way into understanding, oh, wait a second. Okay, I did that. Or I should have or I could have done that I could have listened more I could have, you know, been not so aggressive, or I could have toned it down or I could have walked away for a minute and let the person respectfully know I'm not walking away to not talk, I just need a minute or, you know, learn those tools. But you have to you have to want to do that for yourself. I can't make you, you know, even in my coaching sessions, people will pay me to get this information and to to discover these things about themselves. And then they walk away and you still have to be the one to put it into practice. Right? I can't do that for you. So I think you have to just want to do it. Again. It's not about what should they be doing. It's a matter of what are you gonna do? Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 39:56
What does the word safety mean to you?

Kathy Maloney 39:59
Safety that is my new favorite word. Oh, wow, that is literally my 2022 favorite word. You know, I will tell you a story. My current partner is phenomenal. And he's phenomenal because he lives his truth. He says what he means he means what he says. And he holds me accountable. I know a lot of things. But I've also been in very, you know, seemingly tumultuous well my ex husband was, it was not so great relationship in the end. But I've had some great relationships, because I'm friends with all my ex boyfriends, which is lovely. But I've also been that person that I was just talking about, you know, what should people do? Well, I was that girl who was like, You're not going to tell me anything. I'm going to do what I want to do. Your love languages, personal touch, that's your problem. I was that girl. Because I didn't know any other way to be. But to know better is to do better. And so my ex might, I'm sorry, my current boyfriend. He's always lived his life in that space of this is who I am. If you say, who you are and what you're all about, then that's what I expect. Because that's the decision that I'm going to be basing whether or not I want to be with you off of, right? So if you come with all the falseness, I really don't know what I'm getting. And then when things start to hit the fan, I'm looking at, you know, this is coming from him, he's like, I'll be looking at you like, who are you? Right? And I understand that I understand. Because a lot of us do that we walk into these relationships, or friendships or whatever, and we put on a great show, and then what not long we become ourselves, and then it doesn't really end well. So when I first met him, our first date, actually, I remember feeling very overwhelmed. And it was a very, it was a good overwhelming feeling, because now I'm a coach. And I've done a lot of work on myself. And I also learned a lot from my clients, too. So there's a lot of things that I put into practice that I'm talking through with my clients. And I need to put that into practice too. So when it comes to my boyfriend, now, he, it was very interesting, because the overwhelming feelings that happened, and we're sitting in his car, actually after like a five and a half hour date, very first date, and we've been speaking for a while, like on the phone, like hours and hours and hours. And I can feel the tears coming. And I'm getting to your point about safety, don't just hang tight. So I could feel the tears coming. And I remember looking out the window thinking, Kathy, what is going on what is going on with you? Now I know, because I teach my clients this, when you're triggered, it's really important to really zone in really quickly as quickly as you can on why you're feeling the way you're feeling. So that you can work your way out of it very quickly, and not let it spiral into, you know, the rest of your day sort of thing. So I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, Why am I feeling so overwhelmed? Like I really feel like I want to cry right now. But like, this is a good feeling. I don't know what's going on. Oh my gosh. And the only thing that came to my mind was I trust this man. And I feel so safe with him. And I barely even know him. So, finally, once I like okay, okay, this is what's happening. Now I need to communicate it. Because otherwise he's looking at me like what is wrong with this crazy girl? What is happening here? So I turned to him and he's like, are you okay? And I'm like, Yeah, I think I'm okay. I'm okay. And I communicated that I felt so safe with him. And I'm thinking and I said this, probably more safe than I even felt with my own parents. And I didn't understand why I was feeling this way. And so you know, as the days have gone on, and I've had clients and whatever, I really started to listen to them from a very different perspective after my situation, after that interaction with my boyfriend, and I realized that none of us really feel safe. None of us well the people that I encountered anyway. We just don't feel safe, we don't feel like we can fully let our guard down. We don't feel like we can fully be vulnerable to someone else. We don't feel like we can expose ourselves in our truest form, because we are going to be judged negatively. You know, with the whole LGBTQ. You know, there's a lot of letters that go after that and I won't even attempt them, but you know where I'm going with this, okay? Because there's so there's so many variations of us at this point. There's so many you know, there's so many types of humans on this planet. And I commend them all, for living their most authentic truth at a time where we are, a lot of people are not. But for the most part, we are giving them permission to be, and to be themselves. And it's not easy, you know, and they've got to find safety within themselves within each other within their friends group within their family groups, to truly just be themselves to allow themselves to be themselves. And I think, you know, on, I'm heterosexual female, and so cisgender female and so I know that I don't have those particular struggles. But we all have the struggle to just give ourselves permission to be who we are, and to feel safe being who we are in our, you know, surroundings. So you're not going to feel safe with everybody. And you don't need to give yourself to everybody. You know, you don't need to be vulnerable for that with everybody, because not everybody is ready for that, that which is the truth, and you have to know where your safe zone is. But feeling safe, I think is so it's a, my goodness, it's just it's a human element. It's a thing. And I don't think a lot of us do. And I don't think a lot of people even realize that they don't feel safe. So they act out. Right, they act out, they cause problems, because of their fears because of their insecurities, because they just don't feel safe. And I think that's where a lot of our problems come from know self love, and the lack of feeling safe.

Kit Heintzman 46:36
There has been this really narrow definition of safety in the context of the pandemic and the virus. I'm wondering in that teeny, tiny framework, what are some of the things you've been doing to keep yourself feeling safer?

Kathy Maloney 46:49
It's from a health perspective, like a physical health perspective? I Clorox wipe everything that I bring into my house. Yep, aha. And I will continue to do that. I yeah, I wash everything down fruits, vegetables, I got my veggie spray wash, I do all of that I keep a clean environment. You know, I also, I don't wear a mask, I don't wear a mask when I'm out because I don't want to. I think that as long as I'm washing my hands, because to me, it's about touching. I think a lot of people will wear their mask because of the, you know, you're constantly going to your nose. But here's the funny thing. I can't, I can't tell you how many times I have been talking to someone who wears a mask. And when they're really getting into a story, they pull their mask down to continue talking to me, or they have a sniffle they pull their mask down and use their fingers. This is crazy. So I'm just not gonna wear a mask and just keep my hands very clean, keep my surfaces very clean. Because at the end of the day, people are doing what they do. And they're still touching surfaces that I will be touching. So my biggest practice is hand washing, sanitizing. Hand washing is paramount. So I sanitize when I can't hand wash. But anytime I'm close to a sink, I will wash I'm not obsessive compulsive. I'm just cog, I'm just conscious and cognizant of the fact that that is how this has been spread, in my opinion. I don't think personally, and I know that there's a lot of debates, a lot of debate over everything with COVID, that the droplets and and I do keep them you know, a relative distance. So yes, there might be something in that. But I feel that it's more of the touch. So this and then touching something. That's how I'm going to catch COVID. So I just don't I just keep away from the surfaces and wash my hands often. That's how I choose to do it.

Kit Heintzman 48:40
You'd mentioned getting vaccinated, how did you decide to do that? And then once you decided to do that, how accessible was it to you?

Kathy Maloney 48:48
So I'm an actor, and so I had to be. Because if I was just coaching, I don't know if I would have, I really don't know if I would have. But unfortunately, because of you know being on set, fortunately or unfortunately, and maybe that's also why I never got COVID I don't know, because I'm so diligent, and I've had the vaccine. And it's very interesting for people who've had COVID they look at me when I say I've never had COVID, They're like, Oh, you probably did it's like they want you to have it. You know, you probably did, but you didn't know. Okay. But I got the vaccine because I needed to be on set. And I wouldn't be able to work and I wasn't going to go through jumping hoops of all the exemptions because it wouldn't have been honest. So I did it. And I have no problem with that. Yeah. repeat repeat the question. So I feel like I've answered half the question.

Kit Heintzman 49:41
Yeah, the other piece was just about how accessible it was to you.

Kathy Maloney 49:44
Oh, very, very accessible. Yeah, it was it was literally everywhere you just booked your appointment and went was not a big deal. To be honest with you. Now if you wanted it, you got it. You know, and sometimes we have to go to an odd time but if you wanted it you could get it. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 50:02
You've mentioned boundaries earlier in the interview, I'm wondering how you communicated around boundaries relating to safety precautions and COVID?

Kathy Maloney 50:10
How I related to safety precautions and COVID? So with my kids, the biggest boundary. So I have a rule that when you come from the outside into my house, and funny because my boyfriend, my kids know me, this has been going on for years now. They walk in the house. And as quickly as you take your shoes off and drop yourself at the front door, you wash your hands, you do not come into my condo without washing your hands, like I'm not having it. And that's anybody who comes into my into my place. And so my boyfriend was not of that mindset and quickly learned that you can turn around and go back out if you don't wash your hands. Because I was very clear, now he's vaccinated. He's tripled vaxed too actually, you know, so he gets the whole the whole COVID protocols and stuff. But he's like, Yeah, but you had me sanitizing in the car, like, what's the difference? And I'm like sanitize and washing hands. Very different. In my opinion, I'm sorry. But when you come into my place, I need you to wash your hands. Again, not that I'm obsessive compulsive or anything like that. It's just for me, that makes me comfortable. And so that's really, I would think the biggest boundary I don't I'm not a mask wear. So I don't ask my kids to wear a mask when we're out. And I couldn't wait when they said we didn't have to wear masks to rip that thing off. To be honest with you. And yeah, I'm respectful when I go into places where I have to wear a mask and I will. But for the most part, it really is about just for me in my in my home. It's about washing your hands. Definitely. That's my biggest. Yeah, how can I say? What's the word just slipped me now, my biggest bout boundary that I, you know what it means that I would insist on. Yeah.

Kathy Maloney 50:25
What you found unpleasant about wearing a mask?

Kathy Maloney 52:15
What I found unpleasant about wearing a mask. First of all, breathing was just labored. I'd find myself double breaths, like having to catch my breath, because I would hold my breath I found. And, and then when you're talking, like, depending on the mask you have, it's like being sucked into your mouth, which is annoying. And then we get wet. And it's like, I know, you have to change it all the time. And I just, I just and I really, you know, I really just believe that it was a hand washing thing. I mean, I'm not saying that, you know, if you have a cough, or if you've got a cold, please put your mask on. Thank you very much. I appreciate you putting your mask on. Because I know as you know, got to the point where you would hear somebody cough or sneeze and you're like, What the heck, right? But yeah, I personally, I just, it just wasn't comfortable for me. And I'm a hand washer. I didn't really go near people. And that was the thing if you were near people, I get it, of course. But I stayed away from people. You know, now the world is opened up. So it's like concerts and shows and all that stuff. And I go and you know, we've had barbecues and we've had you know, a lot of family get togethers and stuff. And nobody's wearing a mask. A few people will and it's it's funny, I usually find that people were not vaccinated are wearing their mask. Like my mom, aunts and all that they're usually wearing their masks. And we're very respectful of all of that. But me personally, I just I wasn't comfortable. And I just, I just choose to not wear it. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 53:49
Do you remember the first big event you went to after the lockdown started to ease out?

Kathy Maloney 53:56
The first big event after the lockdown? To be honest, I went to Barbados this year. Yeah, I booked a trip. I was like, I'm out of here. I need to get on a plane. Because I was so scared to get on a plane. I was scared to be in an airport. I was scared to be on that plane with you know, in a confined space. Oxygen not so good. You know, with all, all of that played on me. So I never went out. I didn't like go to big gatherings. When I got on a plane and then once I was on the plane and I landed in Barbados, it was like, Okay, here we are. So I'd go to a you know, go to a club or whatever, where they weren't wearing masks and I was like, Whew, okay, this is this is happening. This is good. And I'm feeling okay. So it just kind of went from there. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 54:45
What's it been like dating during the pandemic?

Kathy Maloney 54:48
So dating during the pandemic was never really a highlight for me because I was going through a divorce. But I met my boyfriend in April this year. So yeah, So we're out of the pandemic, right? And so it's so dating during the pan, I was too busy coaching everybody and, and doing that, and living this free life. So dating for me, I wasn't really interested in that sense. I never really, funny enough, I talked to a lot of my clients about dating, but I wasn't really into, I mean, I would get messages, a lot of people instant message you in your DMS. And I'm just like, yeah, so I just stopped checking them. To be honest with you, I was done with that I was just not interested. And then I realized on one of my posts that my current boyfriend had said, check your DM. And he had sent me a message in February actually, to interview me for coaching because he did a radio show. And I never checked in, he realized that, like, she hasn't even looked at it. And finally, when I did check my DMs, we'd gotten on a call on the Wednesday, before the Easter holiday. And the rest is history. But very unexpected. Not something I was looking for, dating was, I really believed that if it was going to happen, it was going to be organic. And it was, you know, yeah. So during the pandemic, I wasn't really, it wasn't really a thing for me. But for my clients, yes, it was because they were lonely. You know, and a lot of online dating was going on a lot of, you know, meeting people on Zoom or going out for a walk with people. They were doing a lot of a lot of that. So it was happening, just not for me, I wasn't interested.

Kit Heintzman 56:39
What are some of the things that were going on for your clients as they were navigating online dating?

Kathy Maloney 56:45
So for them, it wasn't so good. For a lot of them not so good. In the end, for most of them, it was just chalking it up to this is something they've never done before. It's something they've never thought of, but because of the way the world is going, this just became an acceptable platform to meet people. And they could sort of ease up on they're like, Oh, my God, I would never do that. They can ease up on that a little bit. And they did. And they would try it. And then it became a very interesting lesson in your profiles. They wanted help with their profiles, and I was just like, Oh, okay. Because they felt like a lot of people were lying. And they didn't want to lie, but they didn't want to give all their goods away. So we really worked on their profile, which was also very telling of how they thought about themselves. Very interesting. So a lot of them started to really, that that was their catalyst to look into their self love piece of themselves, you know, and what they were willing to put out there and what they were willing to tolerate, what some of their hobbies were revisiting those hobbies, you know, some of the things that they liked to do, because one of the things I said was, put yourself in the space where you enjoy being, and hopefully you might meet somebody who also enjoys doing that exact same thing, or you know, relative, and that could be a conversation starter, right? So you don't have to get into, you know, oh, I want this for my life. And not necessarily you can just talk about something really surface or something that you have in common and, you know, kind of go from there. Because a lot are coming out of divorces, they haven't dated in a long time. They don't really know how to talk to people and they overshare or they start talking about their ex or, you know, we're like, Okay, we're gonna dial that back a little bit. So, so yeah, it was they went on a journey, a lot of them, they went on a journey and it was fun. One, one, my one client, he, a lot of them didn't end up with the people that they were they were interested in, or talking to communicating with. And so now one of my clients, he's he was with someone that he met online, he was no longer with them. And now he's met someone else online, and it's going very well post pandemic. And I also think it's because that he physically was able to be is able to be around her more maybe, right? I don't know, I don't know if that made the difference. But yeah.

Kit Heintzman 59:09
How are you feeling about the immediate future?

Kathy Maloney 59:11
I am so excited. I am so excited. I'm excited for myself I'm excited for for any and everybody who acknowledges that they need some help. I'm excited for anybody who is thinking that they need a life change whether it's fixing their relationship whether it's coming out of their relationship I'm excited you know for people whose, whose jobs have become you know, more, how can I say it's easier because a lot of the stuff is now a lot of people are working from home. So they have a little bit more time and space to to explore themselves. Connect, you know, stay more connected with your children. You don't have the hour long commute, you know, to and from. I'm also happy for the people who you know, went through the pandemic and they've been living with their partner and they've been working from Home, and they've realized I don't want to do this anymore. And they're starting to own their truth. And they're starting to realize that I can't continue to live the next 20/30 years miserable. So I'm just excited for, that people are starting to wake up in their skin, you know, they're starting to come to life again, and to really start taking their life back into their own control. I'm excited for that. For those people who are not able to do that, for whatever their reasons are, I'm sad. I'm sad for them. Because they don't know how much fun it is to live your actual life, you know, as opposed to living someone else's truth. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 1:00:41
What are some of your hopes for a longer term future?

Kathy Maloney 1:00:47
My children's, children? Is that what we're talking about? Yeah, let's just say that I'm scared. I'm scared. Because if people don't start doing the work today on themselves, we again, the generational traumas are real. In every household, I don't care what nationality you are, I don't care how old you are the generational trauma, this is why I have a 72 year old client, the generational traumas are real, and they stick with you your entire life, you pass them down to your children, then your children don't know any better. Because all they know is what you've given them with the tools that you've provided them with the information that you've given them, the example that you've shown them. And if we today, don't start to change the way that we look at ourselves, the way that we love ourselves, the way that we communicate with other people. Our children's children don't have a chance in hell, I've already spoken to my boyfriend, he's got older kids. And he's like, I'm sad for for our generation, because they don't even want to have kids, like for our children's show his kids like 30 years old, 33 years old. They don't want to have kids, they're so scared. You know, the housing market is ridiculous. You know, the legal system when it comes to child support, and people having children that they don't necessarily, you know, I have friends who are like, I agreed to have sex and didn't agree to have a child. And yet, here we are. And you know, they have to pay child support and the child support rates are not easy, they're there, it's expensive. You know, a lot of people are back living at their parents homes, and they're 50 years old, you know, children aren't speaking to one parent, because, you know, of the parental alienation that happens. Why because of one parents, traumas that they've brought to their children, and now their children are alienated from the other parent because of their own mother or father's stuff, you know? And then those children will grow up in fear of feeling unsafe and unloved or, you know, part loved part confused. It's, it's going to be a sad day. If we right now don't get it together. Our children's children, I don't know. I don't know. I'd like to be around to see my children's children. My children are very young. But if I'm not, I'm also okay with that, too. Because I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, it's a scary thing. Like, way into the future, we have to get this together. We really do. You know, we have to, we have to start looking at ourselves very differently. So, you know, I look at the Tony Robbins of the worlds and, you know, all the self help gurus and stuff that can fill an arena with people. You know, the Mel Robbins and I love these people, and I love what they speak in, they speak their own truth and they share their own traumas. And people will go and see them and spend money and time. You know, and you know, even the what's the other one? Mindvalley you know, with vision, he does amazing work. And there's so many resources and outlets for people to get help and to start to self reflect and self discover and all these things. And they go but they don't, they don't continue with the work in their everyday life. You know, and that makes me sad. Because you can be better. But again, what should you do and what you do, do are, do do that sounded weird, but you know, what you actually do. It's not it's not it's not aligning, you know, and it's, it's unfortunate for a lot of people and for a future.

Kit Heintzman 1:04:35
During the pandemic when you needed emotional support, who did you turn to?

Kathy Maloney 1:04:40
My best friend. I have a best friend named Richard. And he was my rock. He, oh, I always say I don't know where I would have been if it wasn't for Richard. Richard speaks my language and he understands me he understands when I was scared and didn't want to say I was scared. You know, he was that friend, who also held me accountable, you know, in his most supportive way. When I when I, I'm not a crier, but when I needed to cry, I knew I could cry with him. And sometimes he would say nothing. Because I didn't need him to say anything. I just needed to process what was going on. When I needed to vent, I could vent when I needed to be reined in. He rammed me in when I needed, you know, to just be out, you know, we would go for a walk or, you know, whatever I needed, he was always there. Yeah, I really, I had that one friend. And it was that one friend who I knew wasn't going to let me get away with stuff. And I chose him. Because I wanted to feel something, I think that a lot of us can go through really tough times and just numb ourselves out, you know, with substances or with Netflix, or, you know, or whatever. I think Netflix is kind of a drug, but you know, with with whatever, or just in denial, however, we chose to numb ourselves or continue blaming. And I knew he wouldn't let me do that. I knew because he knew that that's not what I wanted. You know, and once I communicated what I wanted, again, it's say what you mean, mean what you say. He was like, Okay, do you remember when you said this? Well, we're not going to do that, Kathy, you know, I'm not gonna let you do this, or we got to do that. You know, come on, did you get this paperwork done? Did you send it in? Come on, you know, I'm like, I just want this to go away. You know, and he's like, Well, it's not gonna go away. So let's do it. You know, what do you need help with? So sometimes you only need that one person. And, you know, he's not a coach. But I knew that that was what I want it to be for other people, you know, on a bigger scale. So

Kit Heintzman 1:07:11
Were you able to do those interactions in person, were they done online, were they over the phone?

Kathy Maloney 1:07:17
So with Richard, he, he was very big on no contact initially, he was he was very diligent, not like me, I would have been like, let's go out and but even when we went for a walk, he would wear a mask. I wouldn't, you know, so, and we didn't do that often. It was just when I really was okay, you know, I'm done. And also my mom. My mom was a very good support when I was going through the divorce during the pandemic, so she would, I live like an hour away from her and she would drive to make sure that you know, I was okay if my ex wasn't home she would come in help me with the kids or whatever it just would just be there she couldn't be there often but you know, it was okay. And it's different talking to your mom you know, but I really did have great conversations with her about what life was like with her and my dad sometimes they they live till death do them part my dad died in in 20, when did he die, 2009 But they they did till death do them part but their marriage wasn't always, it wasn't always great. And so we had a lot of conversations like that. So I also felt felt supported from her. But Richard was the one and he he was very, very diligent with the COVID protocols and practices and stuff. So it was a lot of zoom calls a lot of conversations on the phone. But as quickly as we could open up he was a lot more willing to be around like my kids and myself and you know, and go out we did a lot of stuff not in the home not in the house.

Kit Heintzman 1:08:44
And what are some of the things you do to take care of yourself?

Kathy Maloney 1:08:49
Okay, says the one who talks about self love and self care um, you know, this becomes a practice what you preach thing. So, I work out, I work out that that's for me, that's my hour for me. And I get my kids down in the gym too. And you know, they they know that's even though it's for me, my kids, they join me when I'm you know, when I'm with them and stuff like that, and they enjoy it. So and they do their own thing. They don't bother Mommy, you know, from the treadmill or whatever. So working out for me is a very big thing. I go for a lot of walks, walking during the pandemic was my was my way to get out. So I've continued that. I do a lot of thinking, when I'm on those walks and I'll sit by the pond or whatnot. I meditate. That's been a really good sense of of just centering myself and calming myself down when you know, I'm excitable or, you know, whatever. I'm usually more excitable than sad. I don't, I don't do sad. I really try if I'm in the funk, to process really quickly know why I feel this way and work my way out of it. So that I can get back to joy and happy to being happy. I do watch Netflix. Yes, I love a great show. I stopped watching series because they just those hours just, where do those hours go how many hours? How many episodes was that? I'm like, Oh my gosh, it was like 25 hours of TV. So I stick to movies an hour and a half. Let's get it out.

Kathy Maloney 1:10:21
So yeah, I do do that I don't do that often anymore just because you know, everything's opened up and I'm out and about. But yeah, I really it's working out meditating, going for walks. Being in communication with the people that I know are of the same mindset as myself a lot of checking in with them. Other coaches, that sort of thing. We do a lot of that talk to, to make sure that we're all we're all good because we do help people. And we're hearing a lot of stuff, doing a lot of check ins with each other, you know, coaching each other through our coaching process. So, yeah, that's it.

Kit Heintzman 1:10:59
Do you think of all that happened with COVID-19 as a historic event?

Kathy Maloney 1:11:06
Massively historic, huge. Yeah, I thought SARS was a big deal. This, this was Wow. The lockdown it. You know, when I, when I heard about what was it, in Italy, the canal, where they do the gondola rides, I've been to Italy, and I've been on that gondola ride. And you don't think about I'm just, it's an excursion. For me, it's a fun thing to do. But when you hear during the pandemic, that the fish came back, and you know, the that life was so present in that space, where it was recreation for me, I got on it, it was beautiful, and all these wonderful things. And, you know, we're seeing coyotes everywhere. I'm watching reindeer cross a regular suburban, like, in I'm like, what is happening here. The fact that we humans went away. And life happened again for you know, animals and things, you know, the ecosystem shifted, and whatever the case may be. That was very telling. That was very telling about how much this pandemic showed us how much we humans really do some damage. We really do. You know, I live in an area where many years ago, I've been here now for 12, 13 years, 14 years. And it was a lot of farms. My backyard was a soil field. Right. And now it's all houses everywhere. You know, the big stores, we have an outlet mall. You know, it's Yeah. But to, to know, how things just grew again, because the humans went away, you know, because everybody had to be home. And how the, you know, the animals can roam and come back to their habitat and just be without interruption. It was very, it was very telling was very telling for me. I think this pandemic. That's that's that was one highlight for me. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 1:13:32
Thinking back to your own education, what are some of the things you wished you had learned more about in history when you were younger?

Kathy Maloney 1:13:42
Black history. I didn't even know that there was such thing called Black History Month till I was in grade 10. I had no idea. There's a lot I don't know. There's also a lot that I am. How can I say I'm very ignorant to it. Still to this day, a lot of it because it hurts so much. And I don't want to feel that and that's my choice. And I know a lot of my friends are not of the same view. They actually don't like the fact that I say that at all. But it really does hurt the little bits that I hear you know, about black history all over the world. It's very, very sad. And that's that's putting it extremely mildly. There are good and bad people in every race. Not saying that there isn't but there's a lot of damage that has been done that a lot of people will will you know, skirt under the rug because they don't want to own it also, regardless of whatever you know, color you are. But black history, and all that black people contributed to this planet has been erased, a lot of it has been erased. It's not acknowledged, it's been a lot has been stolen, in essence. And I think a lot of people don't know that. And it's only in February that that's highlighted. As of late, it's been more predominant making Black History Month has become more of a thing. But yeah, I think that Black History Month, and also the indigenous, you know, the natives in their history, all of that, I mean, now we're changing names on buildings because of the awareness, you know. So yeah, it's black history, indigenous culture, that, I wish we'd focused a lot more, and not just on the stuff that was making money, and, and serving a certain group of people. But the bad stuff, the stuff that got them there. You know, like, Let's go way back in time, if we're going to talk about history. That's, that's what I wish I had learned.

Kit Heintzman 1:16:19
What do you think those of us in the social sciences and humanities, so departments like literature and sociology and anthropology, what should we be doing right now to help us understand the human side of the pandemic?

Kathy Maloney 1:16:31
To understand the human side of the pandemic? So I'm taking this not from a physical health perspective, I'm taking this from, of course, the emotional, mental, sociological perspective. That's a good question. I'm going to ask you to repeat that.

Kit Heintzman 1:17:01
For those of us who do work in the social sciences and humanities, so departments like film, sociology, history, Poli Sci, what should we be doing right now, so that we better understand the human side of the pandemic?

Kathy Maloney 1:17:16
I think this, what you're doing an interviewing people is, is huge. It's great. Because everyone has a different perspective, because everyone's life is different, their lens that they see the world through, is different. And I think the only way to truly understand what to do is to get as many perspectives as possible, which is, I think, in essence, what you are doing. So I do commend you guys for doing this. And I think that's one of the reasons why I was like, Yeah, I would love to do this. Because this is just one perspective. As a mom, as an actor, as a divorcee, as a coach, you know, that sort of thing. So I would say, just keep talking to people. And I know that the more you talk to people, you guys will find that common thread that that we all are connected to. And then that thread, which I'm so curious to find out what it is, is then what needs to be highlighted. I don't know what that is. Because I am only one person. I know for me and the work that I've done it is it is growing, it is helping to pay people to understand that loving themselves is key, and finding their own way of feeling safe and allowing themselves to be vulnerable around the people that they need to be vulnerable around. And their interactions with people needs to come from a most authentic place. And sometimes it's not always easy. Conversations are not always easy, but they need to be had. How we then do that how you you communicate that that's what needs to be done. Again, you can communicate it, but how do we get people to do it, right? That's, that's, listen, anybody who comes up with that? It's like It's like pot of gold. Okay, the people will flock to you. So, I think that if you continue doing this work that you're doing you're the one that's going to tell us what needs to be done based on the amounts of people you know, and perspectives that you get really Yeah, I don't I don't I don't actually have an answer. Speechless. Rare. Does that make sense? I don't know.

Kit Heintzman 1:19:52
Okay, this is my last question. I'd like you to imagine speaking to a historian the future someone far enough away that they have no lived experience of this moment, what would you tell them cannot be forgotten about right now?

Kathy Maloney 1:20:11
What cannot be forgotten is the polarizing effect that the pandemic has brought into people's lives. We are not always going to agree on things as humans, because again, we all come from different perspectives, different backgrounds, whatever the case may be, but there needs to be and I say there needs to be because I just believe there needs to be a certain level of respect that we have for each other's differing opinions. This is something that lands people in divorce, because they have no respect for their differing opinions. This is something that gets people killed, because they have no respect for someone else's differing opinions, because they want to be right. This is something that is devastating in the work force. It's devastating families, friends, it's no respect, is just devastating period. And I think that this pandemic has highlighted how dangerous and how sad disrespect for someone else's differing opinion can be, whether it's not wanting to wear a mask, whether it's not getting a vaccine, whether it is getting a vaccine, whether it's, you know, anything, everything that comes with it, whether it's, you know, wanting to be around people or not wanting to be around people. Whether the truckers, you know, have to be vaccinated and to cross Do you see where I'm going with this? It's, it's very, we, as humans can, we can create things that are very polarizing. And if we don't have that level of respect, to at least hear each other, and be respectful of our differing opinions, and continue to live amongst each other with our differing opinions. And our differing opinions are LGBTQ, you know, some people are okay, some people are not okay, well, guess what, it has nothing to do with you. You know, you just have to be respectful that that's how someone chooses to live. And that's, that's, that's the gift they've been given in their life is to be this way, you know, you may not see it as a gift I do, because that's who they are. It is what it is, you know what I mean? Just like I was born black, I can't change that, well, maybe they they're born gay, they can't change that. So who am I to judge that? You know, who am I? Like, who do we all think we actually are? To put that on someone else, you know, put our stuff on someone else. And so I think that if we can up our game and the respect on a respect level, and just be okay, with people being themselves and all their choices, then I think we may have a fighting chance at at peace, you know, at some kind of peace, or civility. But when everyone just wants to be right, so wars start, of course, right? Everybody just wants to be right. They want their own way. And they're not able to compromise, they're not able to find peace in the differences. It's destructive, and it's dangerous. So yeah, being respectful. I think that this pandemic has shown us that we're just not a lot are just not, and it has been devastating on so many levels. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 1:23:48
I want to thank you so much for the generosity of your time, and the thoughtful vulnerability in your answers. Those sorts of questions I sort of know how to ask at the moment, but I'm wondering if there's anything you'd like to share that my questions haven't made room for, if you'd like to take some space and share it.

Kathy Maloney 1:24:07
Um, no, I think that we've covered a lot. Yeah, we've definitely covered a lot. And I'm very grateful that you're doing this. Again, I'll say that again. I think that this is this is a good thing. Because there are so many perspectives. And there are so many people with, you know, opinions, good and bad polarizing and not polarizing. I don't know. But I'm I look forward to. Are you guys going to to sort of summarize what your findings are? I assume yes.

Kit Heintzman 1:24:38
I leave that to others. I'm really enjoying the freedom of having these conversations without having to have a research goal. And for me, that would feel very different because I would be trying to extract something specific. And so I'm leaving that as some other scholars problem.

Kathy Maloney 1:24:59
Okay, okay, fair enough. Fair enough. So but for now you're just getting all the information and we can go and see other interviews or just hear other people talk.

Kathy Maloney 1:25:07
Okay, perfect. Okay, then I'm looking forward to that, because maybe I'll find my own thread, I don't know. But no, I am good. I'm just Oh, the other thing, the only other thing that I wanted to say, because I did make some notes. What I wanted to say was that the pandemic has also opened up, we talked a little bit about people's work life, and how now a lot of people can work from home. But I think for a lot of these young people, YouTube, and gaming, and other career, career creations, you can call it that. They've gotten very creative, like in terms of career opportunities, like when a 10 year old is on YouTube doing a show and making millions and millions of dollars. And you ask this kid what he wants to be when he grows up, he's looking at you like, but here I am, this is what I do. Pay me, what do you do for your $100,000 a year, right? When I'm making millions on YouTube, because I have followers and views and I'm doing all kinds of crazy things. So you know, or the whole gaming industry, how it's just blown up. And these people are making tons of money for this, but off of this. So I think also what the pandemic has has shown us is that conventional ways of, you know, career choice, conventional career choices, teachers, doctors, nurses, you know, whatever the case may be, that's not so important to these kids anymore. You know, the whole educational thing. And then because they were on lockdown for two years, and just their whole education just was like, Oh, what are we doing? Yeah, I think that we have to start looking forward to less of the conventional, which could be great for the people who do stay in it, you know, there's a lot of work for them. But also acknowledging that fast forward, I would love to see how people are making money. You know, I know for me, as a coach, this whole knowledge base industry has blown up, of course, because, you know, the pandemic is, has brought it to the surface, we can do everything online, again, it expands our reach, you know, I would never in a million years have thought that I would be able to do this, again, I have a sociology background, and I want to be a social worker. And then I was just like, acting seems more fun, let's just do that. You know, but I'm kind of going back to where I started, you know, in terms of sociology and understanding that, you know, people in groups and dynamics and relationships and all that sort of stuff. So here I am, and I'm able to do it without having this PhD or, you know, with no disrespect to PhD, because I think, you know, it's it's important, right, and there are therapists, and there are psychotherapist, and there are people who, you know, need to have the certain credentials to do the work that they do. But also the knowledge base industry, right, because it's another, it's another form of career that's been created is also in my opinion, very valid. So careers are shifting, right, the different types of careers are being invented, created, you know, modified, you know, old careers are being modified into new careers. So, yeah, I think that that's going to be a very interesting thing to watch over time. Yeah. And thats it.

Kit Heintzman 1:25:07
Yes

Kit Heintzman 1:28:38
Thank you so much.

Kathy Maloney 1:28:40
Thank you. Oh, my gosh, this is awesome. Thank you so much.