Tina Giesbrecht Oral History, 2022/02/13

DISCLAIMER: This item may contain misinformation or disinformation.

This interview covers the experiences of Tina Giesbrecht during the pandemic. Tina is from Aylmer, ON, which has a large Mennonite community. Her grandson was born during lockdown, and her daughter was married during the same period.

February 13, 2022

Keely Shaw

Tina Giesbrecht

HIST9801

University of Western Ontario

oral history

English Community & Community Organizations

English Religion

English Events

Mennonite

wedding

funeral

social work

children

Canada

Canada

University of Western Ontario

02/15/2022

03/01/2022

03/13/2022

04/15/2022

05/06/2022

03/30/2023

07/12/2023

02/13/2022

Keely Shaw

Tina Giesbrecht

Aylmer

Ontario

Canada

Audio

English

00:44:04

This interview was conducted by Keely Shaw on February 13th, 2022 for the Journal of the Plague Year project through University of Western Ontario. The narrator is Tina Giesbrecht. The consent form was signed on February 13th, 2022 by both parties and is available digitally. The interview was transcribed by Keely Shaw. The audio of the interview has been trimmed at both ends to the relevant portions.

Keely Shaw 0:00
So we'll go ahead and get started. For the purposes of the recording, I'm Keely Shaw, and I'm interviewing Tina Giesbrecht. Right?

Tina Giesbrecht 0:08
Correct.

Keely Shaw 0:10
Okay. I just wanna make sure I said it right. We're doing the interview over Zoom. I'm currently in London, and Tina is at home. It is February 13th, 2022, and Tina is not related to me. So, there's that. So, we've already got the written consent form on file. And, yeah, so . . . we've already talked about the project and interviewed the—talked about the purpose of the interview, and the website. So, my first question for you, is what do you recall about the start of COVID? The virus or the pandemic?

Tina Giesbrecht 0:51
Well, I—personally, when it first started, I was, I was kind of neutral about it. Like I didn't really. I was not afraid. I mean, I wasn't a fan of all the lockdowns and the restrictions they had in place, but I, you know, again, I thought, well, couple of weeks, you know, we can do this. Not that I personally thought that we needed to, but, again, like I said. I wasn't afraid, but I didn't really know much about COVID, so I was kind of neutral, actually, in the beginning. So . . .

Keely Shaw 1:25
Was the lockdown the first time you'd heard about COVID?

Tina Giesbrecht 1:32
Um, no. Like you were—you would hear bits and pieces, right? That it started, I think in China, and that it was spreading and. And then, you know, people are starting to talk about it, coming here. And then, you know, next thing you know we hear cases are happening here. And then I mean, like, I think it was January? We started hearing cases and then all the sudden that was like, February, "Okay everybody, You know, work from home if you can," and then the border shut down. I just remember I wanted to take my grandkids to go see my daughter on March Break, and that's exactly when they were talking about shutting the border. And then, and then it really started to hit home for me, right? Because Linda is in the states, obviously, and I have lots of family in the US and, uh . . . So. Yeah, you know.

Keely Shaw 2:26
Yeah, obviously I would get that. Um, yeah. So, like, how's your view of, like, the virus or the pandemic kind of shifted since it started?

Tina Giesbrecht 2:38
Um, I have been—the whole time, I have been like . . . It—you know, to me it's been kind of like flu season, right? Right, people get it. Some get it worse than others. I've never been really afraid of it. Uh, you know, even though, you know, unfortunately my mom passed away. They said from COVID. You know her body was declining, so unfortunately she ended up with COVID and whatever, but . . . I forget where I was going with this, sorry.

Keely Shaw 3:14
You're good!

Tina Giesbrecht 3:16
So, I was never really afraid of it. Right. I just thought, this is just—we need to, you know, take care of our immune systems and just let it ride out. Basically, yeah. Does that answer your question?

Keely Shaw 3:30
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. So, if you don't mind my asking, did your mom getting sick shift anything around for you?

Tina Giesbrecht 3:40
It made me angry. Right? First of all . . . now, I'm probably gonna get a little emotional, but I'm okay—

Keely Shaw 3:48
Okay.

Tina Giesbrecht 3:49
—I'm okay.

Keely Shaw 3:50
If you need a break, you can also take a break. It's all good.

Tina Giesbrecht 3:53
No, we're fine. We obviously could not . . . It was during the time they allowed no one in. Right, no one. And . . . and we knew our mom was terrified. And she had 16 kids, right? She had 16 kids, and they would not let any of us in. Not even my sister who had already been double vaxxed, and, you know, and had had COVID and everything. And then, just to actually then, you know, watch her die through an iPad. So here we all are on our iPad, everybody at home in their own little space, and—and having to deal with this. And then came the funeral.

Okay. Right, so seven of you can come to the funeral. So it made us all very angry. And we thought it was very inhumane. The way those protocols were put in place, like—Mennonites have a custom; they bury their own dead, that they stay, right? And, and they made us wear a mask on the graveyard. It was minus 10 out there almost. And then we had to walk away, so they couldn't bury her. Like, what is the point to that? It just all made no sense to us so we, so we actually got angry. And I personally got very angry.

It just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. There was nothing about protecting yourself and that whole thing. It was just stupid rules that made no sense.

Keely Shaw 5:32
Mhm. So, would you say that's kind of like—I'm not asking you to speak for the whole Mennonite community, obviously, but—

Tina Giesbrecht 5:41
Of course. But I probably could in general!

Keely Shaw 5:42
Yeah. So, like, did COVID, like, get in the way of, like, your normal traditions and way of handling things and socializing?

Tina Giesbrecht 5:52
Absolutely. I mean, Mennonites are the type . . . Like, if things had been normal, that hospital room would have been full the whole time. My mom was so well known in the community, she was such a social person that she . . . and then she would have had the most biggest funeral, ever. And it's what she would've wanted. And now, you know, we had to be so selective about who could come to the visitation. And like I said, only seven of us were allowed at the funeral, there was no—it was just, it was a nightmare. Honestly, I think our whole family is still struggling a little bit with that. I think we still have a little problem with, you know, closing, you know? You know the the closing part of—or healing where, where we're kind of . . . I think, until we actually as a whole family get together and do a celebration or something, I think it's going to be there. Right.

Yeah. It was very, very different. And you know what, and I'll be honest, and it's—I don't know if you want to hear this in the interview, but I'll be honest—if my mom had lived and saw what we did, she would have been extremely, extremely upset. She doesn't care now, but still, you know. If we would have told her, "Yes ma'am, you're gonna die and you're gonna have a funeral was seven of us there. That's it." She would—yeah, unheard of. And our culture seemed inhumane.

Keely Shaw 7:39
Mhm. Yeah. I'm going to switch gears a little bit. So, have you lived through any other health crises that you could kind of compare this to? Is there anything that you personally experienced that might be similar to how COVID has happened? Or?

Tina Giesbrecht 7:54
Nothing that they claim to be contagious, right. Or something that spreads like this. No, no, I've never . . . I mean, I work in public health, so obviously we're always talking about, you know, flu, and taking care of yourself and, and, you know, good hygiene to prevent spread and that kind of thing. So, I was always listening to that, you know, because it always gets talked about in public health, but . . . but never like a pandemic sort of thing, no.

Keely Shaw 8:23
Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Um, so what does a typical day look like for you right now? And is that different from before?

Tina Giesbrecht 8:34
Oh, yes, huge. So, I work for public health, but I—my job is to go visit young moms with babies, right. And I'm working from home, which it seems a little bit superficial, right? Because, first of all, I'm not—I'm not there in person. Right. And then second of all, I'm not able to do anything really to help the mom except to give her advice, right, verbal, and listen to her talk about how difficult things are. I can't come in now and hold her baby while she has a little nap or just has a shower. I can't sit there and talk to her and fold laundry. I can't show her how to play with her toddler on the floor, right, because it's a mom who's never learned or anything.

For goodness sakes Keely, I had to do a home visit because this mom was extremely high risk, but then I had to get all my PP—PPE on. And you, you can't do it in your car, so you have to do it in the neighborhood. And then people look like, oh my gosh there's that person walking into the house with the goggles, the face shield, the mask, the gloves. Right. And then the child comes to me, so—I'm not wearing a gown—so I have to be like. "I'm sorry I can't touch you." And my job is to be a role model for the mom. So, really . . . I mean, I've been very fortunate they still allowed us to, to, you know, continue to work and talk to these moms and, and I think it does help, right, obviously, but it's so different than than what I'm used to doing. Yeah.

Keely Shaw 10:12
Mhm. So does it feel, like, less effective or helpful?

Tina Giesbrecht 10:14
Oh, way less effective. Like, like I said, I still I'm actually very surprised how many of my moms are the regulars, you know, that take the calls every week and want the calls and and, and whatever. But then there's also this thing, Keely, where, "I have a new baby and I have three other kids at home. I cannot talk on the phone." Right, you—like, "We'll have to talk when my husband's home to watch the kids," right, or something like that. And yet, this is a mom who needs it the most pretty much, right, but . . . So, it's—it's, yeah, it's not ideal, let's put it that way. It's not ideal.

Keely Shaw 10:59
Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. There's a huge, like, social aspect to that whole thing that, like, in person aspect to that that doesn't translate well, I suppose.

Tina Giesbrecht 11:08
And like I said, Our job is to role model. So, how do you hold the baby and burp it, you know if your baby's struggling. What do you, what do you help if you feel your baby's gassy, that kind of thing. A lot of women are even afraid to bath their babies, right, so we were a very hands on kind of program. And now it's like your toddler can't even touch me unless I'm wearing a gown? Come on. Like . . . and I know for the Mennonite families, they would not even take visits. Because, because I was wearing mask, and goggles, and gloves, and gowns, right. So, yeah.

Keely Shaw 11:46
Hm. It's fascinating. So are you spending more time or less time inside or outside your home than you were before?

Tina Giesbrecht 11:54
Oh, way more time.

Keely Shaw 11:57
Yeah?

Tina Giesbrecht 11:59
I used to hardly ever be home except in the evening. Especially, you know, when I was working I was on the road all the time, right. Now I work from home. So I'm home all the time.

Keely Shaw 12:12
Yeah

Tina Giesbrecht 12:13
I even got to a place, Keely—I was a very outgoing social person, very—and I got to a place where I just didn't want to go out. I didn't want to. Then if I had to it was even a punishment for me, you know.

Keely Shaw 12:24
Yeah.

Tina Giesbrecht 12:27
But I since moved on I pushed myself, you know, since the gym is opened up obviously I—whatever. Yeah.

Keely Shaw 12:35
Why did it switch like that originally into being like a punishment?

Tina Giesbrecht 12:40
For me to go out?

Keely Shaw 12:41
Mhm.

Tina Giesbrecht 12:42
Yeah. Well, now I was planted inside. I think it just, it was just the convenience and hating the fact that you had to wear a mask everywhere you went, you know, and . . . Yeah, it just. There was just no desire whatsoever. It just all seemed so—everything seemed so surreal. And, you know, you can't really talk to people. Half of them they don't recognize you, right, because you're writing your mask and . . . And the shopping lines initially were insanely long, right. So, I just got to a point where anytime I could, get my sister and my husband or someone to pick up something I needed and bring it, so I didn't have to go out.

Keely Shaw 13:35
Yeah. So, um, you're still going to the grocery store right? Like y'all just go shopping like normal?

Tina Giesbrecht 13:41
Yeah.

Keely Shaw 13:42
Yeah. Okay. That was one of the questions, like, how do you get supplies.

Tina Giesbrecht 13:46
We do a lot more Amazon shopping now though. Good old Amazon!

Keely Shaw 13:54
Yeah. So what are you doing in your spare time and has that changed?

Tina Giesbrecht 14:01
What do I do in my spare time changed and has that changed? Uhm. To be honest, not as much because of, you know, I still have my grandkids, right. My—my son is a single dad, so I still have my grandkids here a lot. Every weekend. And I still kept a connection with my little circle. Like my sisters come over, my daughter will come over.
So, that part has still been the kind of the same as before, my social life. Yeah. Except obviously, you know, you're not invited to weddings and, and we didn't have church for a long time, so I didn't even go to church. So, I guess that has—that totally changed to right because now we're, we're doing church online all the time so. But I still, like I said, I saw my grandkids, my kids, and my sisters.

Keely Shaw 14:58
Mhm. What was it like doing church online? What does that look like?

Tina Giesbrecht 15:02
It seemed a little bit. Um, I don't know. I mean, I'm—the idea of wearing pajamas and drinking coffee while you're having a church service was not bad, but it doesn't—it's not the same as when you're with a group of people worshiping, singing and worshiping together so it's a little artificial, like you said, right. Like it's . . . yes, you listen to the message and you try to get out of it what you can, but there's not that whole atmosphere that whole, like I said that whole feeling of worship and other people singing together, right. So that was another thing, it was hard for me to go back to church. I actually didn't even want to. I got, like—and then I'm like, okay, you know you better. Once we finally were able to have church, we still have to wear masks, and we still have to social distance in church. Which is kind of weird to, you know? And you can't—so people don't want to hug, they don't want to shake hands. Well, we're told not to—not they don't want to—we're told not to. So, we try to respect that, right. So, very different.

Keely Shaw 16:06
Yeah. Um, is there anything that you miss from pre-pandemic times? Like, specifically.

Tina Giesbrecht 16:18
Well, the whole church thing for one thing. Like being, just being able to talk to people hug them get, you know, handshake. Uh, big social gatherings, right? Like my daughter got married during the pandemic. That was a huge . . . like, I mean she ended up having a cute little wedding in our backyard, but still, you know. So, it was just a lot of things. Every time you thought about something, darn we can't, right? Darn we can't. Like, couldn't have a bridal shower, couldn't have—couldn't do this, couldn't have a wedding reception, couldn't, you know. Everything was just . . . it just feels so . . . you feel so limited. Kind of like you're in this box, right? You can kind of move around in the box a little bit and you can do things, but man you try to get outside that box and then you're hitting a brick wall every time, every, every which side you go to. So.

Keely Shaw 17:14
What was it like planning—trying to plan a wedding?

Tina Giesbrecht 17:19
I felt so bad for my daughter, because then—then they were constantly talking about changing restrictions again. Right. So, they said okay outdoor so many people. So, then they had—so they made, you know, made their invitation list. These are the people we're going to invite now. Right, knowing you would have to be a star. But then they were constantly changing and then, and then they're like, "Oh no, can we go ahead?
Can we not go ahead?' You know . . . so it was very very stressful for them. And of course my role as mom was just trying to keep things, you know, as—just try to be reassuring and just go with it. I just had to go with it and support it and helped as much as I could.

You know, obviously, at that point then, if you can't have the big wedding, you don't want to spend the money, right. So then we tried to do things so that it would not cost as much, but—but again, you know, our son came from Barry, had the new baby, wouldn't let anybody hold the baby. Wouldn't even come into our house because his wife is very, you know, she's a very cautious person or whatever. And then each family had to sit at their own table, right. And then the bride and groom, when they mingled they head to wear a mask. And we had to be so careful about how we served drinks and food like it was just, yeah. Needless to say, we made it work, but it was not ideal.

Keely Shaw 18:57
Your son—I didn't realize he had his kid during the pandemic. There was a new baby during the pandemic.

Tina Giesbrecht 19:04
Mhm.

Keely Shaw 19:05
You notice any differences in that—like, how the kid's doing compared to other children you've seen growing up? I don't know.

Tina Giesbrecht 19:12
Well, we have been a little bit concerned because they're very much a homebody. So, his wife is obviously at home, very much a homebody, but she has also been very good about taking them out a lot locally. Like, just being outside a lot. They live in the snow belt area up north in Barry, and so they—they . . . But, here's what happened. If I wanted to go see my baby, I had to quarantine. I had isolate. Then I had to go get a PCR test, wait for my results, and then I was able to go visit. Right. And then initially was told you can't even stop at a service center to go to a bathroom when you're driving. Like, it just all seems so bizarre, right. Yeah. So, but I did see him at birth, and then I didn't see him again until like a year later, almost. Well, I saw him at the wedding. He was a few months old, but couldn't touch him. And then like a year later. So, we haven't been able to do Christmas or anything with all of our kids, right, 'cause Linda couldn't cross the border. So, yeah. But as far as the kids, they're doing fine. Yes, they're doing fine. Right. I mean, the baby obviously doesn't know different, right. People wear masks.

Keely Shaw 20:37
Yeah. So would you . . . I mean I'm assuming you would have seen—probably seen the baby more if it hadn't been for COVID?

Tina Giesbrecht 20:48
Oh, absolutely, yeah. Yes, yes. I . . . when I see my daughter in law post little videos on Instagram, I often get a little emotional because they're growing up, and I'm—and I can't see them, right. So, like even now, they're—she's asking that I isolate for five days and do a rapid test—and I'm going to do it, right, I will do it—but up until now that was not even an option. So, yeah.

Keely Shaw 21:20
Yeah.

Tina Giesbrecht 21:26
I'm probably making your answers way longer than you want them to be!

Keely Shaw 21:28
No! It's good! I want you to talk, that's the whole thing, right? Like, I want you to talk. The theoretical length of an interview is generally about an hour. Generally it's a little bit shorter than that unless somebody's chatty, but I want you to be chatty. That's the whole point! I want you to tell me about these things, that's why I'm asking!

Tina Giesbrecht 21:47
It's actually a little therapeutic I think! You know—

Keely Shaw 21:49
Yeah!

Tina Giesbrecht 21:51
—I mean, me and my sisters we, we're pretty tight and we talk about our, our issues and and stuff too. But, you know, just . . . so many people have differences opinion about, right, and it's—it's kind of freeing to be able to just tell you.

Keely Shaw 22:10
That's what a lot of people say whenever they're interviewed for things. Because my job is not to judge, it's just to hear.

Tina Giesbrecht 22:18
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Keely Shaw 22:19
So, um, yeah, a lot of people find it therapeutic. So, yes, I want you to talk to you—no worries about length, you're good. So, this one is probably going to be a longer answer from you: it is, "What is the mood among your family and friends and/or coworkers? And how do you think they're responding to the virus or pandemic?"

Tina Giesbrecht 22:42
Well there's . . . coworkers is different. I work in public health, right. So, obviously, I'm working from home, so I haven't been at work, but, obviously, you know, I did protocols for a long time for almost, you know, two years. So the work atmosphere was stressed. Everybody was stressed to the max, right, because we—public health, right? But, in our family, our personal? The atmosphere has been . . . it was very stressful when my mom passed and he had to deal with her whole estate, right. But, having said that, there was— there's still 11 of us, and it actually went pretty smooth, so I'm impressed with that. But our family, in general, like, like I said, me and my sisters we get together quite a bit. So we're pretty open about our frustrations and we're all kind of a little bit on the same . . . we've had a little bit of division every once in a while, because I have a sister who works in long term care, you know. And—but but we've never—but for the majority of the time, we've just kind of, you know, really just tried to support each other, stick together, tried to make the best of it. So, yeah. But work? Definitely stress.

Keely Shaw 24:11
Yeah, I bet . . . so there's a huge difference in how people kind of responded to the pandemic then?

Tina Giesbrecht 24:18
There is. Oh yes, yes. Now you've got to remember though I'm from the Mennonite community, right? So I got put in public health and one foot here.

Keely Shaw 24:27
Yeah.

Tina Giesbrecht 24:29
You can kind of imagine. So I have to be very careful and tread lightly. And regardless, but I take my job very seriously. So, obviously, you know, when I was at work I was doing whatever was required at work, right, my personal opinion . . . I take that home. So.

Keely Shaw 24:49
Mhm. That makes sense. So, has vaccination changed your everyday life or view of the pandemic?

Tina Giesbrecht 25:04
Has vaccination . . . You mean—you mean, how—do I feel safer?

Keely Shaw 25:09
Sure. I mean there's a lot of ways to interpret it, so.

Tina Giesbrecht 25:12
Yeah. I guess, you know, honestly, personally I'm a little bit angry. Because I'm one of those people that felt forced into the vaccine. I honestly did not feel that I needed to. 'Cause I had had COVID, I did an antibody test, and I generally try to take care of myself and, you know, use good . . . But, if I wanted to see my babies, I had to get the vaccine. And a lot of people were put in situations like that, right. So, a lot of people took the vaccine because they felt forced, hence the anger we're seeing in Ottawa right now.

Do I really . . . I don't really think that the vaccine . . . I mean, to be honest—this, this just came out recently because of everything that's going on—you know my sister's been digging her heels into stats and stuff and, and you know, it almost seems like the vaccine is going to be doing more harm than good. So, I . . . but there's a lot of people that do believe in, right. They—they do take it, they do feel safer. They do. We are just not those. My husband and I both got vaccinated because we felt we had no choice. But we do not feel safer because we've had the vaccine, no.

Keely Shaw 26:36
And—you can abstain from answering this if you want—is there like a particular reason you guys don't trust the vaccine, or is it just like a general . . . ?

Tina Giesbrecht 26:45
Well, like I said, we both had had COVID. So we—so we got it, like, you know we got through it and, and I guess . . . And I even did an antibody test, so I just didn't feel that I needed to have it, right? Like, I just didn't feel the need. And, and then, because I'm not a research kind of person, right, so I don't really know, so—so you hear so many different stories, right. So there's so many negative stories, right, although we—we hear the World Health Organization is really pushing it and claiming it's whatever. But then there's also, you know—again coming from the Mennonite community—they're very skeptical in this kind of thing. They're, they're very negative about it, a lot of them. So they also come up with a lot of resources that are very much against it. So, I'll be honest Keely, I just don't even know, I just believe in my heart that if I hadn't been forced I would have chose not to. I would have encouraged anybody that wants to, I would have not been against that, but I would have probably just chose not to because I'm always one of those people—I like trying to do natural immunity anyways, right. Like, yeah.

Keely Shaw 28:02
Mhm. And is that kind of—again, I don't mean to force you to speak for the Mennonite community—but is that kind of something you've seen throughout the Mennonite community? At least an Aylmer?

Tina Giesbrecht 28:12
Absolutely. In this area, everywhere. Yes. And I can tell you, like—because I still have my truck license, I have been able to cross the border a few times during the pandemic. And I was in Texas visiting my family there and it was even worse there. Oh my gosh. There they may they made fun of us that we were still wearing masks kind of thing, right. Like in Canada. So, I would say in general, yes. There's—the trust is just not there. Right, so.

Keely Shaw 28:47
What was it like for—for Pete, being a truck driver during it?

Tina Giesbrecht 28:53
Well, initially truck drivers were like, "Oh my gosh, you're crossing the border, you can't touch me. You can't be close to me." Right. They wouldn't serve them coffee, they wouldn't let them use the bathrooms or whatever. And then I think it just kind of hit everybody, "Wait. These are the guys that are still bringing us our supplies." Right, so we need them. So, Pete, worked harder than ever. He was busier than ever. Right. Come and go as he pleased. And then all of a sudden, they came up with this mandate were truckers had to be vaccinated. To [launch] cross the border. Right, so it's—again it's one of those frustrating things. Initially, when the pandemic was at its worst, I was—I was free to come and go right and work my butt off to try to keep supplies coming. And now all of a sudden that things are where they are, now all of a sudden I can't work because I'm not vaccinated? It just doesn't make—Keely, so much of it just doesn't make any sense to us. Like, we're just like where's the common sense in this? Right. So, so now that the pandemic is almost over, now truckers have to be forced to be vaccinated? Hello, they spend 22 hours a day in their truck, who are they going to spread it to? So, so that's kind of, you know, right.

So, initially it was like, "Oh, you're a truck driver," and then was like, "Oh, yes, you're truck driver, we thank you." And then it was like, "Oh wait, you can't work if you don't get your vaccine." Right. So it was, it was . . . But, I'll be honest, Pete has worked. He's been pretty busy through the whole thing, right. He's been able to work fairly consistent and has been busy through the whole thing.

Keely Shaw 30:49
That's good. Work is good, money is nice.

Tina Giesbrecht 30:53
He's at home now. He's not working now but . . . But, you know, can't cross the border. You can't work, right? Or, for him, anyways, so.

Keely Shaw 31:10
So, that's the end of my list of questions. But, do you have anything else you'd like to talk about? Anything related to COVID? Any experiences that stood out to you during COVID? Anything like that?

Tina Giesbrecht 31:30
Well, it's kind of like you've heard through the whole interview. And, you know, obviously. I mean, I don't understand. Right, I don't understand. I'm not a researcher, that kind of thing. Just kind of going with my own gut feeling and the way we view life, right? Like, for example, my mom, you know, they were saying please don't have visitors, they can spread, especially if you're vulnerable. Well, I mean, my mom was extremely vulnerable she had diabetes and heart disease and kidney failure. But she was, she would rather risk getting COVID and dying than not see people. Right, so—so everything has, to us, has been kind of . . . like we've had to go along with it because we felt we didn't have—we didn't have a choice. But have we actually believed in it? No, right. Like it's . . . We would have preferred just to, you know, everybody take care of yourself, you know. If you don't feel safe, wear a mask and don't go out or whatever, but for those of you, you know . . . and and the whole thing about pushing the vaccine. That has been—like it's one thing to encourage, right. It's one thing to encourage, but when you start to force it—where you give people no choice—then I this is what I'm thinking: why? What's behind? Right. What— what's driving this? For them to make it so extremely difficult and hard for so many people that are choosing. That are that are generally terrified. You have to remember—it doesn't make sense to us, but there are people that generally believe that that is going to poison them. And who am I to say that it's not? I don't know. Right. So, it's very very frustrating. It's all along, it's just very very frustrating. And the frustrating part and the anger comes from feeling like you don't have a choice. So, like I said, I think hence the reason what's happening in Ottawa now.

Keely Shaw 33:56
Yeah. So you mentioned something in there, that like, "why would they want us to take it so badly?" Does it feel like there's like an ulterior motive, other than just getting people shots? Does it feel like there's more to it?

Tina Giesbrecht 34:09
Absolutely. One hundred percent. We believe that one hundred percent. And the Mennonites in general—I can think I can speak for Mennonites in general—they, they believe that. And, you know—and initially, like I said, that you know they were encouraging very much and whatever. But then, you know—and then another thing is—so, okay, get the vaccine. Did one. "Get the second one." Did it. Now let's get a booster? Get the fourth? Get the fifth? Come on. Like, seriously.? No. I don't know what you're injecting me with, right. I'm like, I had COVID, I did my antibody, I had my double vaccine. Shut up. Leave me alone. Let me live. Right. And—and like I said, and a lot of people . . . and, Keely, it doesn't help that there is still a lot of professionals out there that are saying how extremely bad and how—what the negative effects of this is going to be, so . . . So who . . . who do you listen to? Right. These people have credentials their credentials are very good, they—they stand firm what they believe in. Right, but they don't have the—so, clearly, it's a political thing. And in our opinion, it's it's a huge political thing. Somebody's benefitting, and it's not just Moderna and Pfizer. So, I don't know if you can use that. But, anyway, let's just tell.

Keely Shaw 35:45
It's not, uh . . . It's not personal medical information, so, yes, it's fine. Okay, I think that's everything I have noted. Um. Anything else you'd like to speak on?

Tina Giesbrecht 36:01
No, I think I said my . . . I think I've been able to say, kind of, like, you know, the overall consensus. We did it as, you know, we were told. And did we believe in it? Not really. Are we a little bit angry? Yes. Now that they're trying to force it we're absolutely against it kind of thing, you know. Yeah, we think you should just take lots of vitamins, take good care of yourself.